We’re going to keep an updated Winter Meetings column going today because there’s way too many news going on.
8:22 PM: The Yankees lost out on Ted Lilly, who is heading to the Chicago Cubs for four years and $40 million, but still have a one year pact out to Andy Pettitte worth $15 million and they are willing to tack on a second year.
Apparently J.J. Putz is untouchable (but yet they’ll deal Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez?) so it looks as if the Manny Ramirez talks really are dead.
4:47 PM: Yahoo Sports! is reporting that the Red Sox have asked the Mariners for J.J. Putz, Adam Jones, and a third player. We’ll see if the Mariners bite. I’d like to know who the third player is.
4:33 PM: Francona still believes Manny won’t be traded, and isn’t paying attention to the ESPN Deportes report. While I do believe little stock should be put in that report, I also think little stock should be put into Francona’s opinion. Fenway is the home of silent lips. The only stock I put in is if we leave the winter meetings with Manny still in tow. We’re meeting with Doug Mirabelli’s agent about a possible return.
1:36 PM: Jason Schmidt has chosen the Dodgers for three years and $47 millions. This could help accelerate the departure of Brad Penny, perhaps to Boston.
1:02 PM: ESPN Deportes reports that Manny could be traded to the Dodgers or Mariners today. Rotoworld has the story.
The report states that the Dodgers are willing to part with Brad Penny and two prospects, while the Mariners have offered both Richie Sexson and Adrian Beltre. There’s little chance of the Red Sox taking back both players from the Mariners, but they could conceivably acquire one along with J.J. Putz. The Red Sox would probably want at least Jonathan Broxton along with Penny from the Dodgers. However, the idea of potentially using Penny as a closer is an intriguing one.
Thoughts: Youkilis to left? There’s no way in my mind the Red Sox get Sexson and Beltre unless we plan on shipping Sexson to San Francisco or Beltre to the Dodgers. Penny is definitely an intriguing idea, but I’d much rather a proven closer in the position, although Penny, Broxton, and a prospect might work out so we can move Broxton along in a setup role. Stay tuned.
The Philadelphia Inquirer says a deal sending Jon Lieber to Milwaukee for Kevin Mench and Derrick Turnbow will happen if the Phillies can cobble together a Freddy Garcia trade from the White Sox, probably using Aaron Rowand and Gavin Floyd as the pieces to get Garcia.
David Dellucci and Joe Borowski officially are Cleveland Indians.
The Royals acquired Brian Bannister from the Mets for closer Amborix Burgos, who is still only 22 years old. Nod to the Mets on this one.
Here’s a Globe article on how J.D. Drew is unfairly being skewered by Boston fans and media. Let’s give him a chance, people. Let’s not set him up to fail by booing him or jumping on him immediately after a strikeout or gaffe. He’s a Red Sox, let’s support him until we have a reason not to.
As for Lugo, why can’t you think positive, too? He’s got very good range albeit bad hands, he’s got some speed, he can hit the ball, with a good eye.
“He is very contagious,” Devil Rays manager Joe Maddon said. “In the dugout prior to the game, this guy is the kind of guy that runs up and down the dugout, slaps everybody, high-five, has a special handshake for everybody, plays with enthusiasm always.
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I think Drew will be okay… hitting in the 5-hole behind Manny Ortez. If we send Manny somewhere and Drew is now supposed to protect Ortiz, I’m going to be much less excited about that.
I do think we’re overpaying Drew, but apparently that’s the thing to do this year, so we didn’t have a lot of choice there. At least we didn’t sign Soriano to 8 years.
Kudos to the Mets for getting the guy who is the more talented pitcher. However, Bannister was not terrible for them last year, and even with the Glavine signing, they were not dealing from a position of strength or depth.
I don’t see how anyone can say he hits well. a .277 average without power or an eye is not hitting well. In order for this deal to make any sense at all, he has to far surpass his best year every single year, which is a horrible situation to have when you sign a free agent.
Lugo’s going to be Renteria part two. The only difference is that Edgar at least had two good years. Let’s hope some NL team will take him off our hands next year after we pay 75% of his salary.
No eye for hitting? He’s had an obp out of the leadoff spot over .360 three years in a row. That’s pretty solid…quit your bitching and actually do some research. Turn off EEI
OK, sorry, that was unnecessary…but it just seems like you wouldn’t have been happy with anything short of…well, I’m not really sure what you wanted the FO to do this offseason.
Sean’s going to find something to be unhappy about, no matter what josh. I do have the some of the same reservations about Lugo, though. He’s been called everything from a whiner to a good clubhouse guy, and his range of offensive and defensive work is that…extensive as well. I won’t argue that he wasn’t the best option out there, but that doesn’t neccessarily make him a good option.
JD, Lugo……………Theo is on to somethin’! As for Manny traded to LA or Seattle?!….who the hell would think about doin that to the Sox.Tell him who he plays for and get on with it!
Josh-
Let me get this straight, you tell me to do some research right after you say something that is completely incorrect? Take a look at these lines:
2004: .275 .338 .396
2005: .295 .362 .403
2006: .278 .341 .421
How many of those are above .360? Tell you what, I’ll even let you include his line just with the Devil Rays of .373 OBP, which means he’s had 2 seasons in his career with an OBP over .360. Out of the rest, he’s had 1 that broke the .340 barrier.
Say whatever you want about my statements, but I do my research. There isn’t a single thing in his line, makeup or defense to make me want to see him in a Red Sox uniform. Even if you take his career high in every single season, he’s a .295/.362/.431 hitter, which is not anything fantastic.
Why did we get him again?
Ok, you said from the leadoff spot, but not a single person actually thinks he should lead off for the Red Sox, right? Hee Sop Choi has great stats in the 2 hole, but we probably shouldn’t just put him up there, right?
There couldn’t be a member of this site that thinks Lugo is a better leadoff than Youkilis…. right?
I was looking at his numbers strictly out of the leadoff spot, where I’m assuming he’s going to play. Maybe that’s poor logic on my part since the sample size is smaller…but I’d imagine he’s a better hitter then the .340 obp you gave him credit for. As for .295/.362/.431 not being fantastic…a .793 OPS out of SS isn’t something to sneeze at either.
Batting 1st:
2006: .308/.373/.498
2005: .286/.366/.433
2004 sample size is way too small…but batting 2nd he hit: .324/.370/.488 in 170 ab’s. He’s better at the top of the lineup. $9MM is a lot…but Juan Pierre got that and he’s less then half the player Lugo is. GMJ got $10MM for 5 and he’s an even bigger risk. I think this is just the nature of the market…and Theo didn’t have many options.
No, I don’t think he SHOULD be leading off…I just think that’s what’s likely to happen. With that in mind, it seemed appropriate to look at Lugo’s merits as a leadoff guy. And Youkilis’ stats also make him a very good 2-hitter.
I’d prefer a 1-2 of Youk-Lugo or maybe even Youk-Drew…I just don’t know how likely that is.
I want Lugo leading off with Youkilis batting 2nd. Speed, eye followed by pure eye.
That 3rd player from Seattle better be named Ichiro or mabye (maybe) Sexson. I know Putz was great last year but he has never even been a closer for a full season yet (he came in after Easy Eddie blew up and got traded to Cincy). I don’t like the idea of trading one of the best hitters in mlb (ever) for a guy who has been a great closer once in his career and is like 29, and at least one prospect (Jones) and probably another. If trading Manny is more about the relationship b/t Manny and Tito than about Manny’s real desire to leave (which is stated every offseason and fogotten in season when he hits over .300 with 30+ hr’s and 130+ dingers), let’s get rid of Tito and keep Manny. At least Manny wins games for the Sox. I can think of half a dozen games Tito lost for us last year by bad managing. Keep Manny, sign Matsuzaka, give an incnetive leaden deal to Gagne, sign another middle reliever (take a risk on Riske?), and move up some youngsters to help in the pen as well. There you have it, ready for 2007
It’s not gonna happen with the Mariners. They just traded Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez in what looks like a steal for Atlanta. The M’s wont depart with BOTH Soriano and Putz.
Why does Bill Bavasi still have a job? Ugh.
One thing going for Lugo is that he’s supposedly good friends with David Ortiz. That has to count for something, doesn’t it?
I’m not going to waste my time bitching and complaining about this move or that move. There’s no point, as it’s way too early to say Drew and/or Lugo are going to suck in Boston. The truth will unfold on the baseball diamond starting in April. And right now as I see it, the Sox on the whole are stronger today than they were when the 2006 season ended. That’s what ultimately matters.
Sign Matsuzaka, get some bullpen help, and then wait for March.
I don’t understand the Lugo acquisition. His OBP is just not high enough to justify his very questionable defense, and this is SHORTSTOP we’re talking about, possibly the most key position on the field defensively. I think I would actually have rather kept Alex Gonz.
:’-(
There’s a rumor that the 3rd player the Sox asked the Mariners about is Adrian Beltre. For Beltre, Putz, and Jones, the Sox probably would’ve been willing to include Mike Lowell in the swap.
Seattle acquiring Manny at this point is more of a long shot than Theo being struck by lightning while in Orlando and talking to Bill Bavasi (who by the way is a moron).
The Dodgers are very much in it however, especially now that Brad Penny is trade-able (with Schmidt on board). The Sox apparently asked for Broxton, Loney, and LaRoche. I wonder if Theo would settle for Penny, Broxton, and Loney/LaRoche. But I would much rather that nothing happen today to make the Sox go to “listening-only” mode on Manny, thereby decreasing the chances of him being dealt to about ZERO.
Manny Talks Counter: 5hrs 10mins
Manny talks counter now : 2 hours and 36 minutes. Come on Theo, give up already and keep Manny in the 4 hole.
2hrs 18mins to go. C’mon Theo, just go to your suite, turn on the TV, grab a few bottles of your favorite drink, and waste the night away in Margaritaville.
DO NOT PICK UP THE PHONE.
Anyone else mildly disappointed/enraged that Bill Bavasi was retarded enough to trade Rafael Soriano to the Braves for Horacio Ramirez? Theo really couldn’t have gotten in there and ripped him off with like, Matt Clement or something? Maybe Lenny Dinardo?
And here we were last night talking about Theo being the worst GM ever…
I wonder if Atlanta GM John Schuerholz just called Bavasi up to his room, busted out the tequila and made him drink 20 shots. A few hours later, Bavasi might’ve traded Ichiro for Horacio Ramirez. Schuerholz just had to keep it realistic so that a hung over Bavasi could still defend the move the next day. How else could someone be stupid enough to trade a guy with closer-potential for basically nothing?
Haha, I liked Rotoworld’s take on it:
“Unbelievable. Maybe it’s really Soriano to Atlanta for Ramirez and the compromising pictures John Schuerholz has of Mariners GM Bill Bavasi. Anything as long as it’s not truly a one-for-one deal.”
Or perhaps there’s an added dimension to this trade — Bavasi and Soriano for Schuerholz and Ramirez.
One of my friends, when he saw the headline, “Soriano and Ramirez Swapped”, thought the Sox had traded Manny to the Cubs for Alfonso Soriano. He called me and sounded like he was exploding with anger inside. It took over 5mins for me to cut into his rant and tell him that the Braves and Mariners had swapped pitchers, and that Manny was still with the Red Sox and egregiously overpaid Alfonso Soriano was still a Cub.
No, I’m not kidding.
I only worry about one thing with Lugo, and that’s him losing his speed as he ages. I think I’ve said this before: as with RRRenteria, if Lugo loses a step, his whole game becomes replacement-level in a heartbeat.
Brad Penny could close.
Penny could potentially close — any ideas on how to get him, Sam? If Manny’s staying, the Sox don’t have much in terms of trade bait…the Dodgers aren’t stupid enough to trade Penny for Wily Mo.