Daniel Rathman of Baseballistic posted a tidbit of news yesterday, saying that KNBR in San Francisco reported ongoing talks between the Red Sox and Athletics about Rich Harden:
Daniel Rathman of Baseballistic posted a tidbit of news yesterday, saying that KNBR in San Francisco reported ongoing talks between the Red Sox and Athletics about Rich Harden:
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Why would we want Harden when we already have a constantly injured question mark in Beckett? hells no. We’d probably have to give up Ellsbury and Bowden to get him, and a deal like that has already backfired once on us.
No way.
agreed. Unless you get an Abreu style deal, large volume of lower level guys, i would stay far away. You dont want to go down the Clement/Pavano route again.
Harden’s injury history is a lot scarier than Beckett’s. A lot scarier.
Still, for the right price, I’d love to have Harden. But that’s only for the right price, which means no Buchholz, Bowden or Ellsbury. So yeah, going with the chorus on this one. Heh.
This could actually turn into a slightly larger deal, as the A’s may also be trying to unload Milton Bradley. If there’s one guy that can either screw up or bolster clubhouse chemistry in a big way, it’s Bradley, and I don’t think he’ll mesh well with the Sox.
I’d agree with the stay-away-unless-it-only-takes-lower-level-prospects-and-an-outfielder-plan. I doubt the Sox are really seriously interested unless the A’s go into fire sale mode.
In other news, CNNSI had the Red Sox acquiring the Nats’ Jon Rauch as one of their “Seven Trades That Need to Happen”.
Wily Mo to Washington for Rauch? Bowden certainly likes Pena…but is it time to sell on Wily Mo? An (in effect) Arroyo for Rauch exchange would look all kinds of awful…
i think drew should be moved to the second spot in he order and put youkilis behind manny, cause i’m getting friggin tired of his lob, i think he leads the league in that category…
imagine what that rotation will be like with Harden. this is a solution to losing Clemens to the yanks.
i found this on this philly newspaper:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20070522_Too_much_busy_work.html
“Also, the Red Sox have more bullpen options. Hideki Okajima has been a lights-out setup man and Mike Timlin has been effective as well. That allows the Red Sox to be creative. The Phillies hope to have more flexibility now that Ryan Madson (strained oblique) has been activated. It would further help if Tom Gordon eventually can rebound from shoulder inflammation that has sidelined him since May 2″
mike timlin effective….LMFAO
Hmm. Jon Rauch. He’s a solid reliever.
Guys, Rich Harden is a one in a liffetime talent that has shown he can blow the AL away. I think it’s a mistake to pass up on him.
And for the record, Sean O, we haven’t really had that trade backfire on us. Just Hanley has succeeded so far, as Anibal has struggled bigtime this year, and Beckett was doing very well before he hit the DL.
frank:
I think Tito will realize soon that Drew should hit 2nd, and Youks should hit 5th behind the boppers. I still think this is just a slump for Drew, but he’s killing far too many rallies. Or perhaps Drew and Lowell should be switched in the order?
I also think Coco should hit 9th, behind Cora/Pedroia, because that would create the speed combination Tito likes without the “worst” hitter in the lineup breaking it up.
And I’m not convinced that this…
1. Drew
2. Youkilis
3. Ortiz
4. Manny
5. Lowell
6. Varitek
7. Pedroia/Cora
8. Coco
9. Lugo
…wouldn’t be the best lineup, as unorthodox as it seems.
Anyway, changing it after one loss, especially considering the fact that our record is 30-13, is probably too radical.
Weird: I’ve never been this optimistic about a Tavarez start.
[knock on wood]
I don’t want Drew batting 2nd. He’d be a L/L with Ortiz. It just won’t work out, and I think flipping Manny and Papi would be a mistake.
Daniel: I like your unorthodox lineup, but I’d switch Lugo with Pedroia/Cora.
Daniel:
You and me brother, I am amped for this Sexy Lips start. I can practically feel the cotton of the #51 shirt on my back as we speak, and the horrified look on Slappy’s face.
I’m at a loss on Coco. I was convinced that he’d be a quality lead-off hitter for this team, but it’s getting to the point where I think he’s had his opportunity to show something (remember he was out most of last year), and it’s just not materializing.
It’s too bad.
I would trade Clay Bucholtz, Delcarmen, Coco, and Lower A prospect for Harden
DIno:
Might want to include Papi and Beckett in that trade as well. Jeez — the whole house for a solid, but injury prone starter. That’s Bill Bavasi territory!
I think Clay Buchholz should be untradeable. He’s the kind of guy where you deal him and he turns into the next Chris Carpenter (which is his MLB comp on Sox Prospects).
Harden replacing Schilling in the rotation for 2008. You can’t help but be excited at the prospect, but Buccholz IMO is untradeable. Beane is too smart a GM to settle for your proposed trade, Evan, but maybe he’d do Pena, Bard and Hansen/Delcarmen. I’d have to do it at that point.
The injury history is scary, but Rich Harden is a flat out monster. The kid can deal. When healthy, the sky is the limit. Maybe he’s gotten all of his injury woes behind him?
In the end, though, the A’s will hang onto Harden for a while and this conversation will look a bit stupid.
I actually think Harden will end up a Met, with Lastings Milledge, Aaron Heilman, and a prospect heading to Oakland.
But I don’t see anything happening until the ASB, and if Oakland’s within 6 of the AL West lead, probably not until the winter.
If I’m Beane I’m starting that conversation with Humber (better secondary stuff then Pelfrey), Gomes or Fernando Martinez…that Milledge is a punk and the A’s bullpen (Calero & Durusherer sp?) should turn around…not sure if they need Heilman who is a good arm but gets hit fairly well in the NL East.
Very valid offer from the Mets, Daniel.
Not really. A cancer, a reliever with a 4+ era in the NL East and a “prospect”
Let’s be realistic here.
1. Buchholz or Bowden would have to be a part of the deal for there to be any chance of it happening
2. Delcarmen and/or Hansen would be a player here
3. Coco makes the most sense for both teams as the major league player to go. The Sox would have to be confident that Ellsbury could come in and play this year however. I don’t see a combination of Wily Mo and David Murphy making sense in CF through a playoff run.
Harden, although often injured, would be a great piece to the puzzle. But don’t expect anything less than giving up a “Beckett” like haul to get him. And remember, we ate Lowell’s deal to only have to give up that much to get him.
Look…I am all for throwing out ideas and rumors. But lets at least be realistic about it.
The problem with Harden is that the kinds of injuries he’s been getting are persistent, debilitating (to his pitching career, at least), and recurring. Blisters are bad, but blisters are much more treatable than an oblique strain, and pitchers who suffer from a bad oblique or shoulder strain seem to be more likely to suffer them over and over and over, unless they make some big change to their pitching motion/style.
I’ve always said that Harden throws like a little guy, regardless of his actual size. He has kind of a high-energy, real high-strain motion. Reminds me of Tim Hudson (who at least is a little guy who throws like a little guy).
I guess it’s possible that the Sox have sat down all their trainers and identified something that they could fix in Harden’s motion that would make him less likely to blow out his entire core, something that the A’s maybe haven’t noticed or been able to change. But if he keeps throwing like he has been, I would expect him to keep sliding down the slippery slope to Mark Prior-dom.
There is no denyng that Harden is or could be a tremendous pitcher. IMHO
But let’s get specific about his injury history:
23-Apr-07: Right shoulder injury, 15-day DL.
18-Apr-07: Right shoulder injury, day-to-day.
21-Sep-06: Missed 129 games (elbow injury).
08-Jun-06: Elbow injury, 15-day DL.
04-Jun-06: Missed 34 games (back injury).
28-Apr-06: Back injury, 15-day DL.
21-Jun-05: Missed 34 games (strained left oblique muscle).
15-May-05: Strained left oblique muscle, 15-day DL (retroactive to May 14th).
Amazing that almost a year ago, the trade parameters for Harden became the foundation for the tug of war discussions about trading Santana for Buckholz, Lester, Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson, Bowden, Moss.
I believe that after Harden and Street got injured again last year (2007), we could have gotten them both “on the cheap” (relatively speaking) and created an awesome Rotation and Pen for 2008. We still could have gotten them for a better deal during the off season, before they came back so strong. Look what Harden did to us in Tokyo. He may, again, have limited innings, but in a strong rotation like Boston’s, he would have less pressure to win and be less likely to hurt himself this year. And Street, doing what Gagne was supposed to have done, would keep both Paps and Street healthy, and Oki less prone to fatigue.
We missed that one, and could probably have pulled the trigger with Crisp, Hansen or Breslow, and a couple of the lower level guys BB was looking for.
Toronto’s Janssen is now in the same boat, and the Jays expressed a desire to move him, and a Breslow or Snyder type deal might have done it if we were thinking. Imagine him next year, healthy again, in the pen or rotation.
I know, the last entry on this thread was a year ago, but the issues remain current today. In fact, trade rumors continue for Harden, Street and Janssen. Maybe it’s time.