WFAN reports that Coco Crisp could be dealt to the New York Mets rather soon for outfielder Angel Pagan.
The Red Sox would be giving Crisp away on the cheap, but would likely make back what they would lose by not having an unhappy Crisp on the bench.
Pagan, who has played for the Cubs in the major leagues and acquired by the Mets this January, is a career .255/.306/.415 hitter in 318 AB who can play all outfield positions and do so without complaining. At 26 years of age, he would not be a significant dropoff offensively, but as of this moment, I do not know what Pagan’s defensive numbers are. Surely, the difference would be great only because Crisp is that good defensively.
Crisp would likely start off playing left field in the absence of Moises Alou.
Time will tell if this trade happens. If it does, however, you would have to color me disappointed. This is the best we can do? At least send a Double-A relief prospect our way too, for crying out loud!
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I don’t like the sound of any of these trade rumours … none of them seem to do anything positive for us and they are making me nervous about the market for Crisp … it really doesn’t look like anybody wants to give us much back … IMO we should hold on to him right
Of course that brings up the other problem … are we hearing all these bad rumours because the Sox are being forced to listen a bunch of lowball offers because Crisp is demanding a trade? that make me more nervous … Are we trading Crisp now, at the most inopportune time, because he’d hurt us more by being a cancer in the clubhouse?
I dunno … doesn’t sound like it can end well unless a team gives us a good offer or Crisp sucks it up for the team
Sam:
I agree…but with one caveat. There’s a very real possibility that Coco will complain nonstop about being a fourth outfielder, and then the Sox will be in desperation mode — they’d basically HAVE to trade him. At least this way, we’ll be able to keep Bobby Kielty, who I think will prove very valuable if Drew slumps.
I doubt this would be a straight-up Coco-for-Pagan…I could see the Sox sending along some $$$ in exchange for a mid-caliber prospect.
Newsday is reporting that there is no trade, and the Mets arent interested.
I’ve been in favor of keeping Crisp around as I think losing him would really hurt this team’s depth and defense (Kielty isn’t too bad but he doesn’t have the offensive upside/defense of Crisp) … plus we are working from a horrible position in any trade right now … but apparently the FO is worried enough about what Crisp can do to the clubhouse that they are going to listen to any offers
As a fan I hate when players act like this … if Crisp had played like we expected when we got him he wouldn’t be the 4th outfielder now … but I’m sure that’s not what his agent is telling him
whatever … let’s just hope if we have to trade him that we can’t get more than Jason Marquis or Angel Pagan
Thanks Moshe … good news … sorta … tho I would’ve been happier if it had been the Sox who weren’t interested lol
I wonder if Crisp is starting to wonder if he is better of sticking with the Sox at this point. Between the possibility of Ellsbury not getting it done and Manny/Drew being injury prone…I mean you got to think that reality is that there are not more then one or two fits where he would be the starter. I’m surprised the Braves are not more interested…I know they have Schaeffer and Gorky in the wings but they could both need two full years and Mark Kotsay is an injury waiting to happen…and is inferior defensively, and a wash out with the bat and could be worse…his last full year he had a .332 obp with 7 homeruns. Unless they would move Kelly Johnson to center and Lillibridge to 2b or something…it seems like it could be a fit.
Where’s Sean O? He’s usually pretty quick to use these fake rumors as an opportunity to bash Epstein.
Don’t worry Sam, the Red Sox weren’t interested either. In fact, the reality of the situation is that the teams hadn’t even talked. Moshe saying that the deal didn’t happen because the Mets weren’t interested was just some more of Moshe’s revisionist history. Just like he said Joba simply let a pitch get away when he gave up a home run and drilled the next batter. Hell, he just wrote an article about how he’s excited that Shelly Duncan tried to spike Iwamura today.
Any chance Kottaras could challenge for Mirabelli’s job?
10 AB, .500/.538/1.000, HR, 2 2B, 4 RBI
He could be primed for a breakout season. In ‘06 he hit .276/.394/.451 at Double A (consistent with the rest of is production to that point) before struggling at the Triple A level. Last year he hit .241/.316/.408 at the Triple A level, but wouldn’t that translate to a better offensive line than Mirabelli’s .202/.278/.360 last year? Plus, Kottaras has experience catching knuckleballer Steve Sparks.
Radisson,
key point: “struggling at the Triple A level”; that’s super important when you’re talking about bringing someone up to the major…as well as experience, as in Mirabelli’s
PRAISE BE THE DEAL FOR CRISP DID NOT GO THROUGH!
I’m a Mets fan and there is now way I would trade Pagan right now even up for Crisp–please, Boston, keep him!
Pagan has transformed his body through conditioning and has looked super!
Yeah, but Gabe Kapler was one of the best looking baseball players I’ve ever seen. Only problem is, he sucks.
If you’re a Mets fan who didn’t want this trade to go through… yeah, that would be odd. Even Pagan’s 90th percentile isn’t earth shattering.
better no trade Angel pagan for coco crisc
Viv, to be fair I’m sure Mirabelli would struggle at the Triple A level too at this point in his career. At least Kottaras is improving.
As a Mets fan, I’m disappointed that this rumor turned out not to be true. Sure, Pagan is on fire in Spring Training, but Spring Training stats really don’t mean anything, and as for his defense, well, I’ve begun to use “Pagan” as a verb meaning “to misplay a routine fly ball.” Crisp is not a great hitter, but he’s also not a guy who would be overexposed with regular playing time (the main problem with the Mets’ in-house options), and he’d get enough playing time on the Mets that I don’t think that would be an issue for him.
The recent trade rumors to Oakland, Chicago, San Diego and Mets have Coco as an extra OF (supporting the A’s rebuild, platooning with Pie, and playing LF until Alou comes back . . . then what?)
Would he want that? Would the Sox want to trade him for lesser players that we absolutely don’t need? Answer to both questions is NO!!!
Tito started ST saying Coco is our CF. Coco isn’t starting because he is hurt, pure and simple. As stated above, he knows that Jacoby may need more AAA, that JD or Manny could get hurt. He also knows Sox fans understand and appreciate his D, his SB, and know his offense will return. He has plenty of reason to choose to stay, especially in a superior 4-man OF with Repeat in mind.
Could rumors of Coco’s potential to be the feared “cancer in the clubhouse” be just rumors, bolstered by a couple of pre-ST bravado statements? When he reads stuff like this, does he wonder where it’s coming from? Are we over reacting? Are we supporting a harmful rumor? Could be.
Gerry- A+. So completely true. Coco was unbelievably good last year in the field, with an 8.4 WARP. That’s.. really great.
He should start. What will we gain by starting Jacoby now and letting Coco go for nothing? As a random comparison, Ortiz had an 8.8 WARP in 2006.
Coco is good.
lol, come on Sean. Even you must realize that’s because Ortiz is a DH. Talk about using stats to manipulate an argument.
Good god, you people will do anything to twist my words. Obviously Ortiz’s WARP is due to him being a DH, but regardless, value is value. Beckett had an 8 WARP this year, Damon had an 8 WARP in 2004. It is the sign of a very, very good season.
Soriano, one of the most highly paid players in the game has had 3 8+ WARP years. Manny has only had one 8+ WARP year since 1999 (though several were very close).
Crisp is valuable.
Let’s keep the discussion to the topic and Red Sox at hand and refrain from personal attacks on commenters, please. Sean’s point is valid. Ortiz is a DH. I’m not trying to presume that Coco is as valuable as Papi at the plate, but the game isn’t just about offense.
I appreciate all the new comments and welcome more discourse, but not at the expense of civility.
Using WARP-3 is stupid. The adjustments are dumb in context of discussing Crisp.
To say Crisp is extremely valuable is dumb. Yes, he has value but come on. First off, WARP stinks because BPs fielding stats are bad. A guy like Crisp gets too much credit. Second, he isn’t what we saw last year. For arguements sack i’ll stick with BP stats. Prior to 07 he had a career FRAA of +10. He was +27 last year. Would you call Jack Cust extremely valuable b/c of one great year of hitting?
The fact of the matter is Crisp was a stud in the field last year and only last year. Does one year of amazing D make up for his .240 and .247 EqA the past 2 years?
Well, Dave, let’s look at this train of thought. In LF, he hate a Rate2 of 116, 124 and 113 before the move to Boston. Then, after an adjustment year back to CF in 2006 (while injured), he brought it all together in CF.
I don’t look at Rate2 exclusively, just like I don’t look at any stat exclusively. I know that Melky’s Rate2 is a mirage, but Coco is backed up by extremely good UZRs and (to me, most importantly) fielding bible scores.
Also, Crisp hasn’t been valuable for just one year. Let’s play devil’s advocate and agree with Crisp that he’s been battling nagging injuries and is finally healthy. If we can get a .280/.350/.450 line like his last few years in Cleveland, we’re in excellent shape.
meant *had* a rate2 in that first line. I was having a conversation about geraldine ferraro at the same time, so that kinda seeped in.
He is obviously a good defender. He is probably a top 5 CFer maybe top 3. That being said, without looking it up i think his career EqA is .255. Above the numbers i mentioned above but still below average. Considering he is making 10M the next 2 years he isn’t worth much. If i was a team trading for him I’d give up a bullpen arm/ bench player + C prospect. Or a B prospect. Something along the lines of a Gallagher or Castillo from the Cubs or an Inma or Carrillo from the Padres.
I still think a trade of Lowrie + Crisp for Fuentes + Morillo type deal would be great. It wont happen but i think that would be great for both teams.