Comments on: Coco Crisp on verge of being traded to Mets?

By: Dave B.

Dave B. — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:18:54 +0000

He is obviously a good defender. He is probably a top 5 CFer maybe top 3. That being said, without looking it up i think his career EqA is .255. Above the numbers i mentioned above but still below average. Considering he is making 10M the next 2 years he isn’t worth much. If i was a team trading for him I’d give up a bullpen arm/ bench player + C prospect. Or a B prospect. Something along the lines of a Gallagher or Castillo from the Cubs or an Inma or Carrillo from the Padres.
I still think a trade of Lowrie + Crisp for Fuentes + Morillo type deal would be great. It wont happen but i think that would be great for both teams.

By: Sean O

Sean O — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:44:31 +0000

meant *had* a rate2 in that first line. I was having a conversation about geraldine ferraro at the same time, so that kinda seeped in.

By: Sean O

Sean O — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:30:27 +0000

Well, Dave, let’s look at this train of thought. In LF, he hate a Rate2 of 116, 124 and 113 before the move to Boston. Then, after an adjustment year back to CF in 2006 (while injured), he brought it all together in CF.
I don’t look at Rate2 exclusively, just like I don’t look at any stat exclusively. I know that Melky’s Rate2 is a mirage, but Coco is backed up by extremely good UZRs and (to me, most importantly) fielding bible scores.
Also, Crisp hasn’t been valuable for just one year. Let’s play devil’s advocate and agree with Crisp that he’s been battling nagging injuries and is finally healthy. If we can get a .280/.350/.450 line like his last few years in Cleveland, we’re in excellent shape.

By: Dave B.

Dave B. — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:54:31 +0000

Using WARP-3 is stupid. The adjustments are dumb in context of discussing Crisp.
To say Crisp is extremely valuable is dumb. Yes, he has value but come on. First off, WARP stinks because BPs fielding stats are bad. A guy like Crisp gets too much credit. Second, he isn’t what we saw last year. For arguements sack i’ll stick with BP stats. Prior to 07 he had a career FRAA of +10. He was +27 last year. Would you call Jack Cust extremely valuable b/c of one great year of hitting?
The fact of the matter is Crisp was a stud in the field last year and only last year. Does one year of amazing D make up for his .240 and .247 EqA the past 2 years?

By: Evan Brunell

Evan Brunell — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:39:51 +0000

Let’s keep the discussion to the topic and Red Sox at hand and refrain from personal attacks on commenters, please. Sean’s point is valid. Ortiz is a DH. I’m not trying to presume that Coco is as valuable as Papi at the plate, but the game isn’t just about offense.
I appreciate all the new comments and welcome more discourse, but not at the expense of civility.

By: Sean O

Sean O — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 04:17:50 +0000

Good god, you people will do anything to twist my words. Obviously Ortiz’s WARP is due to him being a DH, but regardless, value is value. Beckett had an 8 WARP this year, Damon had an 8 WARP in 2004. It is the sign of a very, very good season.
Soriano, one of the most highly paid players in the game has had 3 8+ WARP years. Manny has only had one 8+ WARP year since 1999 (though several were very close).
Crisp is valuable.

By: WAC

WAC — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:59:33 +0000

lol, come on Sean. Even you must realize that’s because Ortiz is a DH. Talk about using stats to manipulate an argument.

By: Sean O

Sean O — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:53:48 +0000

Gerry- A+. So completely true. Coco was unbelievably good last year in the field, with an 8.4 WARP. That’s.. really great.
He should start. What will we gain by starting Jacoby now and letting Coco go for nothing? As a random comparison, Ortiz had an 8.8 WARP in 2006.
Coco is good.

By: Gerry

Gerry — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:20:46 +0000

The recent trade rumors to Oakland, Chicago, San Diego and Mets have Coco as an extra OF (supporting the A’s rebuild, platooning with Pie, and playing LF until Alou comes back . . . then what?)
Would he want that? Would the Sox want to trade him for lesser players that we absolutely don’t need? Answer to both questions is NO!!!
Tito started ST saying Coco is our CF. Coco isn’t starting because he is hurt, pure and simple. As stated above, he knows that Jacoby may need more AAA, that JD or Manny could get hurt. He also knows Sox fans understand and appreciate his D, his SB, and know his offense will return. He has plenty of reason to choose to stay, especially in a superior 4-man OF with Repeat in mind.
Could rumors of Coco’s potential to be the feared “cancer in the clubhouse” be just rumors, bolstered by a couple of pre-ST bravado statements? When he reads stuff like this, does he wonder where it’s coming from? Are we over reacting? Are we supporting a harmful rumor? Could be.

By: Jessica Bader

Jessica Bader — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:34:56 +0000

As a Mets fan, I’m disappointed that this rumor turned out not to be true. Sure, Pagan is on fire in Spring Training, but Spring Training stats really don’t mean anything, and as for his defense, well, I’ve begun to use “Pagan” as a verb meaning “to misplay a routine fly ball.” Crisp is not a great hitter, but he’s also not a guy who would be overexposed with regular playing time (the main problem with the Mets’ in-house options), and he’d get enough playing time on the Mets that I don’t think that would be an issue for him.