July 30, 2008 at 11:26 PM
The Manny Ramirez Trade Thread
The latest iteration:
The Commissioner's Office has been informed of a deal involving the Pirates, Red Sox, and Marlins. ...the teams, I am told, have not agreed on the specific prospects to be included in the deal. ...Marlins get Manny Ramirez, one prospect (Red Sox), and cash (likely covering Ramirez's remaining salary) Pirates get Jeremy Hermida and three prospects (two Marlins, one Red Sox)
Red Sox get Jason Bay and John Grabow (Baseball Prospectus)
Let's hear your opinions, we'll have plenty of them once the trade happens (if it happens). My quick take: Love it. Hermida and Bay are great players, but they don't provide the now element that Bay and Grabow do. A lot of people are drinking the haterade on Bay which I don't understand... please view his career statistics. He has to be a defensive upgrade, is locked in through next year ($7.5 million contract next year) and can rake. Count me on board, Manny has worn out his welcome.
Discussion
168 Comments on "The Manny Ramirez Trade Thread"
#1
Posted by Zach Hayes, July 30, 2008 11:34 PM
Depending on if the Sox are giving up any good prospects, I like this deal. I imagined this exact 3-way last night and it might actually happen.
#2
Posted by Cory Humes, July 30, 2008 11:36 PM
In with the first "I imagine other kinds of three-way" joke.
I dig Bay and Grabow as a Pirate fan, but I will *gladly* take Hermida and whatever prospects you'd like to throw our way. I'm patient, and I think Hermida has the potential to be a mini-version of Jason. The spects just sweeten the pot, imo.
#3
Posted by Philip III, July 30, 2008 11:44 PM
Hermida... Bay... either sounds good to me.
If we get rid of Manny, I'll be thrilled with either. Get it DONE!
#4
Posted by Mostly Running., July 30, 2008 11:47 PM
Until Sox fans know the prospects given up there is no way to evaluate this. If this turns into another clusterfuck deadline giveaway I'm done defending Theo. Manny leaving makes me sad, prospects better not make me sadder.
#5
Posted by kevin r, July 31, 2008 12:01 AM
I am intrigued, but we really need to know what prospects. Surely it won't be, e.g., Bowden or Anderson, right?
Just keep thinking "it worked in 2004..."
#6
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 12:06 AM
I'm against it if it involves the Sox giving up more prospects, but I'm for it if they can get cut ties with Manny and get Bay, Hermida, and/or some good prospects in return.
Look, I have been a Manny apologist for a long long time. His numbers have dictated that the Red Sox keep him. But if he will continue to goof off in the field, feign injury, not run out balls, and generally work to make everyone miserable for the rest of the year, then I don't see how we can continue to keep him here.
At this point I'm just not convinced that he will produce enough in Boston over the next two months. Does he have the ability to? Absolutely. I just have scary visions in my head of him taking this team down again and I'd rather have a motivated Bay or Hermida instead.
#7
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 12:08 AM
But, will a motivated Bay outhit a disinterested Manny? I, personally, doubt it. And considering we'll probably end up paying Bay an unbelievable amount, I don't get the upside. It's not like Jason in 27, he's 30 and only going to decline. And he can't field.
#8
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:16 AM
Honestly here's the best idea in my book. Keep Manny, play out the season see where we end up. Then pick up his option as punishment for next year as punishment for being a jackass and trade him. Either that or let him test free agency and either outbid the Angels for Tex or wait for Ramirez to come crawling back. No one is paying him more than $20 mill next year, it'll be like A-Fraud and the Skanks last year.
Some dumbass chatting over at espn actually suggested this: "Here's the trade I want, although it will have to happen in offseason. Red Sox trade Dice-K and his walk everyone in sight and be done after 5 act to the mariners along with Brandon Moss and Michael Bowden in exchange for Ibanez and Jeff Clement. Asian fans are happy to pair Dice-k with Johjima in Seattle, they get a young MLB ready OF in Moss, they get near MLB ready young starter in Bowden. Sox get OF to replace Manny (if Bay deal doesnt go down) and they get a replacement for Tek (thank god!). You heard it here first, spread it around!! "
Sometimes I wonder how many people actually think...
#9
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:17 AM
Actually its more likely that he gets better for about 2 more years and then decline. Players usually enter their absolute prime years around 30 and then start declining around 32
#11
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 12:24 AM
Yeah, that's where we seem to respectfully disagree Sean. At this point I don't have much doubt that a motivated Bay would out-hit a disinterested (that's being kind...I'd be more inclined to say destructive at this point) Manny. Their OBPs are about 20 points off and their OPS' are less than 10 points off. Stick Bay in this line up and he'll see more pitches and have more people on base than he would have had in Pitt. Plus its not like Fenway is a pitchers park for right handed batters...
#12
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:25 AM
he followed it up by saying the Red Sox should then use the money they save on Manny and Tek to sign CC. As if they couldn't do that without trading Dice-K, Moss, and Bowden for the corpse of Raul Ibanez.
#13
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 12:26 AM
Hey...can one of the Mods move this post up to the top of the page? There seems to be a decent conversation going and its the most pertinent topic of the day, but it would be good for everyone to see that we're still talking about it.
Thanks!
#14
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:27 AM
Yeah, Tom, but despite being "dinsinterested" Manny was still hitting against the Angels. If he doesn't get traded I think his motivation will be to play for a new contract somewhere else
#15
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 12:30 AM
Right, and Tom, Bay is currently playing in AAA. Manny is playing in a real baseball league and still outhitting him.
#16
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:35 AM
Carroll is saying that the Sox will continue trying to deal Ramirez even if the three-teamer falls through. The Dodgers and one other mystery team are involved. I love the idea of Matt Kemp in Boston what do you think Sean? I wonder if the mystery team isn't the Mets, it must be killing Omar to see all this Manny talk and not be involved. How about... Manny for Beltran and Fernando Martinez, Omar loves him some Manny would he be dumb enough to do that one?
#18
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 12:36 AM
I wouldn't even need a jersey; I'd just freaking tattoo the name and number on my back.
#19
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 12:38 AM
I don't buy that AAA argument. The NL Central has much better pitching right now than the AL East does. If anything, Bays ancillary numbers will improve from being in a more balanced line-up. I agree that the AL is better than the NL but I think the transition is far more important for pitchers than hitters.
As for him hitting against the Angels, yeah he did hit them hard last week, but since things have gone downhill attitude wise over the weekend, he hasn't hit them much this week (2-11 with one HR and a couple of walks). Those are not bad, but they could certainly be better and he couldn't even bother to try and beat out the hit during Lackey's no hitter.
#21
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:41 AM
Haha, I'd do the same. Ned Colletti is dumb right? If I was Theo I'd offer him Manny for Kemp, LaRoche, and Scott Elbert. They clearly have no intention of ever letting LaRoche play there so why not trade him as part of the Manny deal. Then turn Elbert into the lefty equivalent of Morrow and convert him back to a starter a year or two down the road
#22
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 12:44 AM
Kemp and LaRoche would be the steal of the century. I don't care if we have to give up Kalish to make it happen.
#23
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 12:45 AM
BTW, Gammons is saying the Marlins deal is almost dead. Florida wants even more money about what Ramirez is being paid this year.
Now even I agree with you guys that this is getting ridiculous...
#24
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:47 AM
"The NL Central has much better pitching right now than the AL East does." not buying it.
The NL Central has Harden, CC, Sheets, Zambrano and a bunch of garbage. Rotations are much deeper in the AL East just look at the #3 starters on the top 3 teams: Mussina, Dice-K, and Garza. The Jays even have McGowan. I can't even name a #3 in the NL Central outside of Ted Lilly.
#25
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:49 AM
Really Florida, you want Manny for free and then to actually make a fiscal profit, screw them lets talk to Neddy boy in LA.
#26
Posted by Gerry, July 31, 2008 12:51 AM
Agreed, kevin. Our goal appears to be Jason Bay and Grabow, necessitating the 3-way. Manny could give the Marlins a playoff spot, and we are paying them $7M to accept our gift. So WE ought not to be throwing in our top prospects, certainly not Bowden, Lowrie, Anderson, etc. I would be happy with Hermida and a prospect for Manny. Either Bay or Hermida will take up much of Manny's slack, especially with his minimal effort, but Is Grabow the top arm that will save our BP or replace Buch or Colon?
#27
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 12:53 AM
I don't trust a word out of Gammons mouth when it comes to Manny deals. He's become too much of a mouthpiece for Sox ownership.
#28
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 12:56 AM
Agreed on the second point Bob.
But really on the pitching? I mean in general I agree with you that the AL has had deeper pitching than the NL, but the AL East/NL Center comparison I don't see.
With the Cubs you're forgetting Dempster who's had a fantastic season, Parra's doing pretty well there too. You're completely ignoring the Cards who've somewhat surprisingly had a good rotation.
Also...Mussina as the Yankees #3? Who's above him right now? All I see is Joba and that's been recent. Pettite is doing pretty well...but their other starters have been Rasner, Kennedy and Ponson...that's not much for depth.
#29
Posted by Faiaz, July 31, 2008 1:22 AM
You losers go ahead and keep on telling yourselves how much better you'll be without Manny but no matter who the Redcox get for Manny, his replacement won't have a .400+ BA and 50+ HRs against us. It's a win/win situation for us regardless of what happens cuz even if he stays in Boston, your team's chemistry will take a shot. Wasn't it like a month ago when people were saying that the Yankees won't make the playoffs? Well the tides have turned and now the defending world champions won't even make the playoffs while the Yankees are guaranteed a playoff spot for the 14th consecutive year...all without our ace Wang and our starting catcher Posada and injuries during the season to Andy Pettite, Brian Bruney, Alex Rodriguez, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon.
#30
Posted by Sean, July 31, 2008 1:28 AM
Dolphins writer, Marlins fan.
I like the deal for us too.
I know on the surface it doesn't make a ton of sense for us. Manny is what we already have, a power hitter with poor D. But what he is for us is BUZZ. He'll get the fans excited about the team even more, as they are just starting to warm to this team of young cheap overachievers. Trading for Manny keeps him out of New York and Philly, plus for us.
Hermida or Willingham, both are great players, but they have those dirty dirty words to Marlins management attached to them next year...arbitration eligible. Doing this trade, we can rid ourselves of someone getting a significant raise next year and it's legitimately not a fire sale. We're getting better now to stay inexpensive later!
And, since Manny will insist on the club options being dropped, even if he walks the Marlins will get two first round picks. And look what they've done with them lately. But I think it's 50/50 that Manny would stay a Marlin. Loria could keep Manny to keep attendance up while we fight for our stadium, spending against future revenue sort of like the Phils did.
And, while the prospects mentioned so far are good, none seems untouchable.
Marlins VP Larry Beinfest rushed past reporters in the clubhouse following tonight's win over the Mets, went straight to manager Fredi Gonzalez's office, and met with him and Marlins GM Mike Hill.
There's a ton of smoke here, and you know what they say about that. I think this deal is gonna happen, and we'll both be better for it.
#31
Posted by Cory Humes, July 31, 2008 2:04 AM
Gerry:
In my opinion, no, Grabow wouldn't be a setup man on a contending team. He's not a lefty specialist -- look at his career platoon splits, or lack thereof -- and his stuff isn't dominant enough to get the best righties out consistently, either. He'd be a nice seventh-inning option, but probably not much more.
He's a nice, cheap player for the Pirates, but I suppose the Red Sox would expect much more.
#32
Posted by Colin, July 31, 2008 8:20 AM
Whoa,
Did somebody just feel a bunch of hot air blow by or was that just a Yankees troll? Remember buddy, you're still in third place.
#33
Posted by JaredK, July 31, 2008 9:01 AM
I'm not really all that psyched about Grabow but getting Bay's production would be great. Grabow is having a nice year but it is an anomaly looking at his career numbers. I still wouldn;t mind seeing what Hunter Jones could do or if Kris Johnson or Dustin Richardson may be able to transition to the pen in August and give us anything as a lefty specialist for September.
#34
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 10:13 AM
Yeah really, Yankees fans you're in 3rd, almost got swept by the O's and the bottom of your rotation reads (Ponson, Rasner) good luck with that. I'll enjoy watching the Angels skeet all over you this weekend.
I'm certainly not drinking any haterade on Bay, he's a defensive upgrade and can replicate Manny's production, especially with Fenway helping him out. Thought about this some more last night and basically decided that I'm coolwith whatever as long as the final trade doesn't include Lowrie, Andersen, or Bowden, we're already giving up a lot in Manny.
As for Papi following Manny out the door. Absolutely not happening, Papi understands that this is a business and he also understands what a complicated person Manny is. They're friends, but they can remain friends in different cities. Lowell said yesterday that whatever happens happens and I'm sure that Ortiz is thinking the same thing. I still don't see this trade happening though.
#35
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 10:16 AM
Jason Bay sucks, and will be owned by MLB pitching. Being the 2nd best hitter on an insignificant AAAA team is not worth Manny Ramirez, and it certainly isn't worth Jeremy Hermida.
Theo better not ruin this team.
#36
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 10:26 AM
I don't think anyone is making the argument that Jason Bay's peak production will beat Manny's peak production. That's not the point here...the point is that Manny's made it clear he's going to shoot his way out of town and dog it for the rest of the year if he doesn't get his way. If that's the case, then I'm all for Theo cutting his losses. Bay is certainly better than a dogging Manny...you gotta see that at least Sean O.
Now if we have to give up some major prospects as well then I'm with you on this, but the deal as reported wouldn't be half bad and could seriously raise team morale.
#37
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 10:40 AM
Sorry, how is Bay the 2nd best hitter on the Pirates? Who would be the best? McLouth? I think Bay is a solid player who will be energized by being on a contender for the first time. His career numbers are much better than Hermida's who by my estimation is the 4th best hitter on a AAAA team (Hanley, Uggla, and Willingham are all better). Compare Bay and Hermida's career stats, Bay is a better hitter, and Hermida has long enough to prove that he isn't anything more than he's shown. I don't really want to trade Manny, but if we do Bay is the best option.
#38
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 10:41 AM
I don't give a damn about "team morale", I care about giving up prospects and a HOF player who is hitting .299/.398/.529 for someone who hit .247 .327 .418 in AAAA last year. Jason Bay is not anywhere near a #4 hitter for this club or any other in contention, because he didn't even deserve to be a #4 hitter with the Pirates.
It's unforgivable to get Bay instead of Hermida or a prospect. We can't win this year, as the last 2 weeks have shown, so we're going to shoot ourselves in the foot for the future.
#39
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 10:48 AM
The site ate my comment, but 1). Hermida is 6 years younger, 2). plays in an extreme pitcher's park, 3). is cost controlled. Bay is 1). 30, 2). unable to outhit Xavier Nady, 3). not cost controlled, 4). coming off an '07 where he was hideously bad.
This kills us for the future. We can't even spend the money we're saving on Manny on power, because the Angels will resign Tex. This is a joke.
#40
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 11:01 AM
Good points all Sean. I will say that looking at Bay's career, 2007 looks like an outlier. As for being unable to outhit Nady, do you really think that Nady is a better player? He's had one good year and was a platoon player until this year. Is Bay Manny? No and that why I've been saying I'm fine keeping Manny, but I don't see Hermida becoming Manny either. At $7 mil Bay's contract is reasonable and gives the Red Sox room to manuever for more power in the offseason, we're not the damn Marlins, we can spend a little. Despite my rash comments last night, I still think that this is a playoff team and a good one at that. The Angels worry me, but I'm going to stick with it. I'll take Bay at 30 (right at his hitting prime) with another year on his contract and maybe use the extra $13 to go after someone like CC in case Clay never pans out, or just try and outbid the Angels for Tex, he's a Boras client he'll take the money.
#41
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 11:23 AM
This isn't even close to a playoff team, and if we squeak in, the Angels and Yankees would sweep us. Buchholz is nothing, Matsuzaka will fall apart in a big game, Beckett is toast, and Wakefield is 75 years old. Unless Lester can pitch every other game we're done.
The last player we want is CC when we only create pitching prospects. We have no power for the present or the future, and we're dumping one of only 2 sources we have. There is nobody to spend money on because theo was too pussy to get Tex,meanwhile the Yankees improve in a half-dozen ways.
Jason Bay in the AL East. Yankees fans are unbelievably happy that this deal is happening. I hope we can hold off the Blue Jays for third.
#42
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 11:29 AM
Really man? The Yankees would sweep us? Holding off the Blue Jays for 3rd? Let's not get delusional, if we sweep the As and the Yankees get swept by the Angels will you feel the same way or will everything magically get better. This is without a doubt a playoff team. Buchholz is the 5th starter who absolutely would never start a playoff game, Beckett got roughed up last night but the start before against the Yankees was brilliant and I'm not going to call a 27-year old cooked especially after last year. Wakefield is solid, Lester is a beast, and I'll take Dice-K. in the playoffs the Yankees would have Joba, Pettite, Mussina, and PONSON as their starters. We would have Beckett, Lester, Dice, and Wake. I like us.
That said I've thought about it and I want to keep Manny now.
#43
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 11:30 AM
Damn...the site keeps eating my long comments!
Both Bob and Sean have good points. I tend to agree with Bob that I think this team still has a very realistic chance of making the playoffs. They've played their very worst baseball of the season for the last two weeks and yet they are still in the Wild Card and within a few games of the division lead. Their rotation is better than NY's and I still think the bullpen and line-up problems can work themselves out.
Sean O, I really don't think we're that far apart here on things (other than the Nady vs. Bay thing...agree with Bob completely on that). If I thought Boras could talk Manny into giving us two more solid months then I would not be subscribing to this trade talk. However, from everything I've seen and heard over the last month, Manny doesn't want to act like an adult and instead wants to shoot his way out of town. If that's the case then I think we need to cut our losses and move him for someone that can help us now and hopefully in the future. I do agree with you Sean that we shouldn't be trading prospects.
My main concern in this whole situation is that I don't want another Manny 2006 situation where he decides that he doesn't want to play anymore and will take the whole team down with him. I'd much rather have Hermida or Bay at 100% than Manny at 50%.
#44
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 11:33 AM
Also...how is Teixera any better than Bay or Hermida for that matter? In fact his numbers are similar to Youks this year and he'd be a two month rental. At least Bay would be reasonable for this year and next and Hermida (I assume) would be under control for a few more years. I've never drank the Teix Koolaide. He was great for the half season with the Braves and is an overall good player, but I don't see a world of difference between him, Bay, and Hermida...or between any of them and what Manny would do for the Red Sox for the rest of this season for that matter...
#45
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 11:40 AM
I actually agree with Sean that Theo should have sacked up and traded Hansen and Youk for Tex. Yeah Youk and Tex have similar numbers this year and everyone loves those Yoooooooooouuuuukkk chants, but their career stats aren't even close and Tex was playing at Turner field which is where homeruns go to die. Basically it would ave been a one for one deal since as far as I'm concerned Craig Hansen isn't a pitcher.
#46
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 11:45 AM
And if they had made that trade Tex would have re-upped, no doubt in my mind. He is definitely a better hitter than Hermida and Bay and it would have also allowed us to keep Manny.
#47
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 11:54 AM
Pedroia/Drew/Ortiz/Ramirez/Teix/Lowell is one hell of a lineup.
Pedroia/Youk/Ortiz/Bay/Lowell/Drew is not.
#48
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 11:58 AM
You know what, you're right Sean. I'm officially against this trade now although I've flipped-flopped more than John McCain and John Kerry combined.
#49
Posted by Troy, July 31, 2008 1:03 PM
Why all the hate for the Red Sox owners. How many World Series wins did the Red Sox have before John Henry and CO. came aboard. And as far as Peter Gammons goes. He is a Baseball writer for crying out loud.
#50
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 1:03 PM
Meh. The Cardinals are a house of cards, They've been depending on Kyle freakin Lohse, that's telling. Dempster failed as a Starter, then failed as a reliever and now he's magically a good starter again? Yeah, sure, he'll collapse pretty quick. Parra is okay. The Yankees 1 and 2 are clearly Joba and Pettite. Quick name the top 3 starters on the Reds, Pirates and Astros
#51
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 1:05 PM
Oh I love the owners and trust them to provide a winner everyyear, I just don't enjoy swallowing a lot of their propaganda. I do think that it is suspect that Nomar, Manny, Pedro and a number of other high-profile players have been really upset with ownership on their way out.
#52
Posted by Mostly Running., July 31, 2008 1:09 PM
"House of Cards.." Love it, a little levity to get me off the command+R cycle that I've been stuck on.
#53
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 1:12 PM
Glad to provide it...
The Marlins got Rhodes for a mid-level prospect, could we get Ohman for someone like Craig Hansen?
#55
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 1:27 PM
Clock's ticking, I really hope we're talking alternatives to this deal (KEMP for Godssakes KEMP KEMP KEMP) and not just sitting on our thumbs. Let's make the Marlins sweat a little.
#56
Posted by JaredK, July 31, 2008 1:32 PM
I just saw the punk band Pulley announced they are about to release a new cd, they are fronted by Scott Radinksy. Maybe if the album sales are dismal we can convince Scott that being a left handed specialist is a better career move then fronting a punk band, especially with the gas prices/touring issues. His elbow has had 6 years to recoup. God, I fucking hate relievers.
#57
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 1:48 PM
I don't see anything getting done at this point. So, it's back to the status quo. Wonder if this will involve a hand-made sign like '05.
#58
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 1:49 PM
Manny isn't going anywhere, can we at least get a quality pitcher for Craig Hansen?
#59
Posted by JaredK, July 31, 2008 1:51 PM
We apparently talking to the Cubs about Scott Eyre (alng with the Yankees). Can't we just give Hunter Jones a shot? Or even see if Kris Johnson or Dustin Richardson can transition to the pen as a lefty specialist? I'll be pissed if we give up anything of value prospect wise for a Will Ohman or Scott Eyre type. They are the epitome of the whole volatility of bullpens.
#60
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 2:05 PM
it's dead. just as well. Now we pray Colletti is as dumb as he's been lately.
#61
Posted by Mostly Running., July 31, 2008 2:09 PM
cleveland broadcasters are saying they quashed the trade. good for them. Kemp? Please? Manny and $20 million for Kemp and Laroche?
#62
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 2:09 PM
Manny will be wearing a Sox uniform tonight, and it's probably for the better, but can we at least get some kind of upgrade for this team?
#63
Posted by Mostly Running., July 31, 2008 2:26 PM
I doubt very much that Manny will be wearing a uniform tonight, let alone a Sox one, unless he is laying prone on his bed with his pants around his ankles waiting to "contribute" more to the name of the team with the help of his wife or whatever other friend he can find.
I didn't mean to type that. I meant: it's an off day, doubt he's in uniform tonight.
#64
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 2:35 PM
yeah I realized that about a minute after I wrote it and was hoping that no one caught me....
I think I've seen a picture of Manny's wife and she is hot. So he's got that going for him, which is good.
#65
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 2:41 PM
Well Cafardo just said that the Dodgers are definitely still in play on this, for whatever that's worth.
Come on Ned!
#66
Posted by Tessie's Dad, July 31, 2008 2:43 PM
Nice mental image, MR. :-P
Theo, ask Coletti for Russel Martin while you're at it. Ned might just be dumb enough to do it. See if you can throw in Lugo, too.
#67
Posted by Mostly Running., July 31, 2008 2:44 PM
I really respect Mr. Colletti (sp? sorry, distracted by buying season tickets for the LAD next year). I think any move he makes with Mr. Epstein will pay off for the Dodgers in their attempt to win a World Series. Kemp and Laroche are not too much to give up for a future Hall of Fame player who will help the Dodgers in their pennant drive. As a Dodgers fan I think this is a great trade, please make it happen.
#69
Posted by Tessie's Dad, July 31, 2008 2:48 PM
The ironic part is that I actually am a Dodgers fan! (Sox first, always, but the Dodgers are my NL team and have been since 1981.)
#70
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 2:48 PM
It would be awesome if we get Kemp. If we get Ethier I will hate it. I still say we see if we can get at least Kemp and Elbert and push for LaRoche. The Dodgers need a SS right? Let's offer them Lugo or Cora.
#71
Posted by Tessie's Dad, July 31, 2008 2:52 PM
But to continue with your line of thinking, MR:
Mr. Coletti, Mr. Running is correct. Think of how a hitter like Manny would thrive in a great hitter's park like Dodger Stadium. His power numbers are well below what they could be because of Fenway's cavernous dimensions. I envision .380, 120 HRs, 300 RBIs, easily.
#72
Posted by Mostly Running., July 31, 2008 2:55 PM
Thank you "TD," you obnoxious Sux fan who only wants the best for a bloated goat of east coast existence. I almost forgot about that dirtbag Martin. He shagged my girlfriend and almost hit me with a broken bat when I was proposing to my other girlfriend in the very expensive dugout seats I happen to have just renewed my season tickets to (pending your acquiring the dred-locked slugger). Get rid of him and please bring back my favorite all-time Dodger Mr. Julio Lugo. Mr. Ned, if I may call you that, please do this: Man-ram, Mr. Lugo and $20 million (can you even count that high, I know I can't) for Laroche, Martin and Kemp. You lose some dead weight, get two High-Caliber© players and some serious bling.
#73
Posted by The artist formerly known as Mostly Running., July 31, 2008 3:00 PM
TD-
Obviously a die hard LAD fan hacked my account. I would never say such things. My apologies. Still, those Dodgers fans really want some Man-Ram.
#74
Posted by Tessie's Dad, July 31, 2008 3:00 PM
ROTFLMAO & ISDOGMAFFMISOTINAW!
(rolling on the floor laughing my ass off and in serious danger of getting myself fired for making it so obvious that I'm not actually working!)
#77
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 3:20 PM
is it confirmed? If so then we need to upgrade the bullpen somehow, both of the main competitors have already addressed their weaknesses.
#78
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 3:23 PM
Yeah, its at MLB Trade Rumors and a few other sites. I'm not sure if ESPN has it yet...I think they do though
#80
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 3:26 PM
Manny is staying. Edes says the Red Sox aren't talking with the Dodgers anymore.
#81
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 3:33 PM
Oh well. Time to reconcile. Theo should give Manny a hug and a box of chocolates and Manny should buy John Henry flowers. Probably for the best. For all we know, next week Manny will say he wants to retire here.
#82
Posted by Colin, July 31, 2008 3:34 PM
And in the stillness of it all, a cool air of utter apprehension flows through, hitting me with utmost worry about the Red Sox this year.
#83
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 3:38 PM
Tampa still hasn't confirmed the Bay deal, here's hoping it falls through....
#84
Posted by Tom A, July 31, 2008 3:50 PM
Yeah...MLB Trade Rumors got that too...Guess Tampa is questioning who they put in the deal.
I'm surprised that MLB.com released the news without having both sides confirm. A bit weird there...
#85
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 3:56 PM
how much is theo being paid again? considering in a calendar year he's just managed to get Aardsma and Sean Casey?
#86
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 3:57 PM
So we got nothing... we'd better win the World Series otherwise this is egregious.
#87
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 3:58 PM
Yup, did nothing to improve for this season or the future. Every other team managed to find at least something, while we sit on our asses.
Should've given up this year and tried for the future. The Angels are scary.
#88
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 4:04 PM
sounds unlikely but fingers crossed that we get some late news of some reliever, otherwise this is starting to look 06 scary. Hansen and Delcarmen sucking in the pen, general malaise, no moves
#89
Posted by Colin, July 31, 2008 4:09 PM
So...figuring there might be a 3-year pattern with Red Sox issues leading to ceremonious victory, who's up for World Series 2010?
#90
Posted by Bob, July 31, 2008 4:09 PM
I certainly wouldn't mind a 2010 ring, but I'd like a 2008 one more.
#91
Posted by Sean O, July 31, 2008 4:11 PM
Depends Colin, do you think the front office is ever going to plan for the future, or try to get a player to help our gaping holes? Apparently Theo considers this job to be one long vacation since he never does anything.
Salesman don't get paid for almost making sales, they get paid to actually do something.
#92
Posted by Chris Joseph, July 31, 2008 4:15 PM
Looks like the Marlins just wouldn't budge on certain prospects, so the Bucs backed off.
So the Pirates give the Yankees Xavier and Marte for a lollipop and a handshake but suddenly decide to play hard ball when the Sox are involved.....
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People need to take a Deep Breath and step away from any Bridge in Boston.. Go SOX!!!
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Posted by Colin, July 31, 2008 4:22 PM
@Bob: Of course I'd love a 2008 ring. I'm just making a funny of how there was the glorious 2004 victory, then 2005/6 disappointment, then glorious 2008, and if predictive analysis is my friend, 2010 might be something big.
@Sean: I think Francona thinks about the future but yeah I don't know about Theo. Sometimes I think Terry Francona has been the best thing in keeping Theo from flushing many Boston opportunities down the toilet. I mean Lugo was a bust, Drew redeemed himself for the most part, and now I'm fearful of his next venture.
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Wow Sean O...nevermind the fact that he's restocked the farm system to the point that its uniformly recognized as one of the top three in baseball. If you want to count the lack of moves against him, go ahead, but remember we also pushed things and got Gagne last year and I'm pretty sure all of us don't want to go through that excruciating situation again.
I more prescribe to Chris' theory that he pushed to make a deal, but teams played hardball with him. Plus, what's the point of giving up Hansen to get a mediocre reliever on a two month rental. Personally I'd rather play with fire with Hansen than blow him and another prospect for a couple months of Grabow, Ohlman, or someone like that.
The Fuentes level reliever was off the market or untouchable a while ago.
While I don't like standing pat either, I still tend to trust Theo to do the right thing for the organization. Especially when the reliever market is as ridiculously overpriced as it is.
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Sounds like Manny to the Dodgers we get Bay, prospects to Pittsburgh
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Sounds like it. He'll be fine with the short left field wall, his numbers this year are in line with 05/06. He'll hit 30-35 homeruns and bet .270-.280. We get him for next year for 7.5 mil. I'm waiting to hear if we added any prospects. If Kemp is going to Pittsgurgh that may be one thing, but I have a feeling it will be something like Hu, Ethier and Laroche or a prospect from the Sox.
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It's likely the Dodgers gave up the kind of prospects the Pirates were trying to finale from Florida.
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New thread up guys, Manny traded to Dodgers, Bay to Red Sox
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