October 22, 2008
Schilling blasts Manny
No, by saying PLAY I mean exactly that. The issue got to the point where everyone finally took him at his word, there was no choice. A guy refusing to get on a team plane, having to be literally coaxed on, by people with pride and people that love the game, because meeting the obligations of a 20 million dollar contract were not even close to enough to get him going???? If he did not get traded he was going to need "time off" to rest his injured knee, and it got to the point where he made it clear time off could mean the rest of the season.
So it's not 'what could have been', we knew what was to be, and what was to be was that if he did not get a contract extension he was going to take a seat, and in taking that seat he didn't give a rats ass what anyone thought, including the 24 guys that wore the same uniform. So the 'what could have been' in the post season is not the question. The question is would there have been a post season if he had stayed, and that's a question, and a gamble, that I think everyone felt they knew the answer too and in the end a gamble no one was willing to take, and rightly so.
It is demeaning and disrespectful to the guys that did respect their teammates, the game and the fans by busting their asses through broken down hips, sore arms, strained abs and whatever, to grind it out for each other and the fans, their love of the game and anything else you can think of, the organization, to hear people question the hows and whys of this whole thing. That was why I said 'he flipped you all off' because if you heard ANYTHING he said after he left, he did.
But the thing that killed me in the end was this; he never gave a rats ass about any of us that suited up with him, not one iota. He was, and he said repeatedly, about going to the highest bidder and getting as much money as he possibly could, period. If that meant pissing on us in the interim, so be it.
Schilling went on to discuss how the team was disappointed not to make the World Series and glowingly runs through the Sox roster saying that "the Sox are poised to be a force in baseball for the next decade."
For the entire text, scroll on... For the comments, click here.
No one wants to hear less about the ending of the season and the whys than fans that love the Sox. While I am officially no longer a member of this organization I have read and keep reading the "What if" stories as they relate to Manny and the team and the playoffs.
Enough has been said by anyone, and everyone, involved that it makes peoples ears bleed but it still appears a huge important piece to the puzzle is being missed.
First off anyone saying
Jason Bay is a nice player, but he's not Manny.
is just not a very smart baseball person. Putting up the numbers he did in Pittsburgh has been vastly downplayed in my opinion. Yes his last year was less than stellar but in the Major Leagues that happens. Bottom line is this guy is a 30/100 above average on base guy who plays his ass off in the field and runs the bases hard and right. Is he Manny? Hell no, who is? Who has ever been? But he's far more than a 'nice player'. Nice players are guys that play 140 games, hit 275 and drive in some runs, and are good guys. This guy is a very good, very good player. Not only that but he proved the October limelight is not something that will make him wilt. Oh and he had a hell of a nice run the last few months in a market that couldn't be more opposite than Pittsburgh.
That's beside the initial point though. People are going to say, and have been saying, what if Manny had stayed? What if Manny had done what he did in LA, in Boston? If TJ Siemers can crawl out of Manny's butt long enough he'd objectively look at what happened and know he's at the front of the 'I'm going to look like an ass at some point' line and wake up. I've made enough horses ass comments to know to at least be aware now, when I am headed down that path....
It was NEVER a question of Manny's ability, ever. Hell I am not sure anyone had more run ins with him, as a teammate, than I did, but I'll never say anything other than this guy studied and practiced the art of hitting, and executed, as well as anyone I've ever seen.
No, that wasn't the issue, and no one argues that. What was the issue, and this is my opinion only, became very clear to anyone in or around the team at this point. The issue was not whether he would play 'hard' every day. He ALWAYS hit, but the game is so much more than swinging the bat it's laughable. No, the issue was whether he would actually PLAY. I don't mean play hard, play tough, play lazy, no, PLAY.
He had in the past taken days off. Hell most guys do. He certainly had his own way of doing it and it was never ever with thought to anyone but himself but for the most part I always took it with the "Manny knows his body better than anyone". We all knew there were times it was just 'He didn't feel like playing today" and by 'playing' that meant anything. Pinch hitting, pinch running, anything. His days off for the most part were totally off. That's not common, not at all. You played that day, or series of days, with a 24 man roster, that was never a thing you doubted or that came unexpected after awhile. As a pitcher that is and always will be a factor in being a leader in the clubhouse. A starting pitcher has very little idea what these guys do to their bodies every day. But what I do know is I played 23 years of professional baseball and have played with guys that ran the spectrum. The guy who said "I'm good" while trying to catch with a broken collarbone, and the guy who literally HAD to feel 100% to take BP. So for a pitcher to question a position player, well in certain contexts that just didn't happen, but you also knew your teammates and you got to see 'behind the curtain' when that 'hurt' guy took 5 days off and spent less than 10 minutes in the training room. A direct opposite to the guy who took one day off, made sure the manager knew he could Pinch Hit if needed, and spent the game running back and forth from the bench to the training room getting interval treatment as he could.
No, by saying PLAY I mean exactly that. The issue got to the point where everyone finally took him at his word, there was no choice. A guy refusing to get on a team plane, having to be literally coaxed on, by people with pride and people that love the game, because meeting the obligations of a 20 million dollar contract were not even close to enough to get him going???? If he did not get traded he was going to need "time off" to rest his injured knee, and it got to the point where he made it clear time off could mean the rest of the season. Few guys will admit to it and that's cool, I get that, but no one, if in the right situation, would ever deny that was anything but true.
So it's not 'what could have been', we knew what was to be, and what was to be was that if he did not get a contract extension he was going to take a seat, and in taking that seat he didn't give a rats ass what anyone thought, including the 24 guys that wore the same uniform. So the 'what could have been' in the post season is not the question. The question is would there have been a post season if he had stayed, and that's a question, and a gamble, that I think everyone felt they knew the answer too and in the end a gamble no one was willing to take, and rightly so.
People continue to try and assign logic to the thoughts and decisions made when we all knew so many illogical things were said and done that logic was far from a factor in 99% of the things happening at the end. I don't think Scott Boras told many to 'tank it', Manny's a grown man and any decisions or actions he made are all on him.
It is demeaning and disrespectful to the guys that did respect their teammates, the game and the fans by busting their asses through broken down hips, sore arms, strained abs and whatever, to grind it out for each other and the fans, their love of the game and anything else you can think of, the organization, to hear people question the hows and whys of this whole thing. That was why I said 'he flipped you all off' because if you heard ANYTHING he said after he left, he did.
Ya, remember this guy was at the forefront of bringing the first world championship to Boston in 2004 (but please also throw a cheer or three Foulkies way, that guy was the man in October of 04), remember this guy, along with David, made the most fearsome middle of the order of our lifetimes, remember when he was at the plate you better not THINK of not being able to watch what he might do. This guy, when he hit, changed games BEFORE he came to the plate.
But the thing that killed me in the end was this; he never gave a rats ass about any of us that suited up with him, not one iota. He was, and he said repeatedly, about going to the highest bidder and getting as much money as he possibly could, period. If that meant pissing on us in the interim, so be it.
Hey! That's cool, that's 100% your prerogative. But please don't crap all over the guy, or guys that spent years as your 'teammates' covering your ass by saying "Aww that's just Manny being Manny" and the hundreds of thousands of other things we needed to say to stop the stories from being more than they could. Please don't piss all over the Manager and GM who pretty much swallowed every ounce of pride they possessed because they knew that it was 'win above all else' here to the fans and owners. Manny had a cult following because Manny could hit and act goofy, period. Hey that's cool, that's what some fans love an that's fine, but that's it.
Manny left because Manny wanted to get Manny the largest possible contract Manny could. That happens and that's fine. But the Sox got a player that's going to help them get back to October next year out of a situation they could have been left with a player not playing, and a patch work of guys filling in for the rest of the year.
That doesn't mean, to me anyway, that the question should be "How much farther would we have gotten" but rather "Would we have gotten there?"
Why on earth would ANY situation be as good as it's ever been? Why would things be so fun and nice and happy and exciting AFTER you lose a first ballot HALL OF FAME PLAYER? Is the rest of the baseball world that much smarter than a guy widely recognized as one of, if not the, best GMs in the game? Is a guy widely recognized as one of the best managers, and on top of that best human beings, in the game that dumb? Couldn't it be that the opposite is true?
Don't ask how far they could have gone. Let it be what it is. That team went from 7 runs down and 7 outs to the end of a season that had more turmoil and injuries than the Dallas Cowboys, to tying run on base in the 8th inning of game 7. One game from the World Series.
Is that good enough? Ask the players, they'll all tell you hell no because it's now different here. They now, and rightly so, expect to win the World Series every year. Anything short of that is disappointing and you can scream all you want but it's realistic, and earned. Ya it's not the Yankees of the late '90s, but it's getting there. This group has earned a place of respect in baseball that's been earned and the onus is on them to maintain that level of expectation through performance, on and off the field. But for me, personally, the far cooler piece is that the composition of players on the team now, and the organization, is now setup to be held to a far higher standard personally and professionally, and with that comes good things. The fans deserve that, the game deserves that.
Joe Maddon benches his star young player twice and his team reaches the World Series. Hell Scioscia has to pretty much kick a star offensive player off his team during the playoffs, it might even have cost them a shot at getting to the World Series in 04. I'm ok with saying it because while you can scream all you want about things I've said in the past, I've never intentionally disrespected the game, or my teammates, never. I've said dumb things and done a few real stupid ones, never was anything said or done with the intent to disrespect either, anyone telling you otherwise is a liar.
I promise Tito, Jim Fregosi, maybe even Bob Brenly and Frank Robinson will tell you I was a pain in the butt at times because I talked too much though the GMs might say it a little more adamantly. But there isn't a coach or GM I ever played for that will tell you I didn't bust my ass every day I had the ball in my hand or that I was ever unprepared for the job at hand, or that I ever played the game with anything but respect. I am not a Hall of Famer, I've known that since suiting up with one. I played with guys that don't and will never like me, hell that happens. But I cared about every teammate I ever had and I cared what my teammates thought of me when it was my day, and I cared what the guys in the other dugout thought of me when they had to compete against me. Beyond that what people 'knew' of me was/is far less than anyone ever will beyond my friends and family.
The Sox are poised to be a force in baseball for the next decade. The Left Fielder is a perennial All Star, the staff is littered with aces, the bullpen is anchored by a guy that will end the decade as the games most dominant closer, the first and second baseman should finish 1-2 in the MVP race (not sure what order), the team has a HUGE pool of young, homegrown, talent in the majors, and on the way, the manager, though bald with an enormous nose, is as good a manager as anyone in the game and manages people better than anyone I've been around, he cares, deeply, about his players and hsi staff and that matters to them all, the coaching staff has 2 future managers at least, one future GM, the fans got their 4th ALCS in 6 years. It's a new time, a new team and the future is awesome. Remember the 2008 Red Sox as a team that persevered thorugh a lot more than 90% of the teams in the game and battled their asses off to within 2 runs of a World Series while authoring the greatest comeback ever for a team faced with elimination. Remember them for the 3rd baseman that played through what could only be described as a broken hip, an Ace that gutted out a game that will be horribly under appreciated forever, in a must win. Remember 2008 as the year Jon Lester, a cancer survivor, turned into one of the premier pitchers in the game, not the league, the game. Remember them as the team who's closer extended a record post season scoreless streak even farther, remember them for their 2nd baseman, a five foot nothing guy who can fricking rake (though he knows he can't hit me) a gold glove first baseman who cemented his place as a premier all around stud (though bald and a mullion). Those are the things to remember this team by, those are the things that matter.
No more 'what could have beens', they are good enough now to take responsibility for what is, and what will be, and there isn't a player on this team that will shun accountability or responsibility for their actions or their teams. That's a pretty cool thing.
Discussion
44 Comments on "Schilling blasts Manny"
#2
Posted by The Mad Prince in Pinstripes, October 22, 2008 4:09 PM
I personally love everything the Red Sox went through with Manny Ramirez. What is more, I love that he is no longer on the Red Sox. Having said that, I also appreciate Schilling's perspective. My question is this: why remove those comments? If Schilling has this much distaste (and rightfully so), why not keep those comments up there, hope Manny reads them and signs somewhere in the AL so that Schilling can do the same for a half season in 2009 and the opportunity to blast Manny with a 95 mph heater in the side of his head?
#3
Posted by Evan in reply to comment from The Mad Prince in Pinstripes, October 22, 2008 4:11 PM
Mad Prince,
Very good question. My guess is that his agent told him to do so. He probably won't be looked on favorably in free agency if he's willing to air dirty laundry like that.
I will also mention that it may have contractual issues, despite saying this: "While I am officially no longer a member of this organization I have read and keep reading the �What if� stories as they relate to Manny and the team and the playoffs."
#4
Posted by Mostly Running., October 22, 2008 4:23 PM
I'm very curious where both those jokers will wind up next season. Sure would be fun if they were either on the same team or outright blackballed. Meh.
#5
Posted by Mostly Running. in reply to comment from Mostly Running., October 22, 2008 4:24 PM
Oh yeah Evan, nice to see you get picked up by mlbtr.
#6
Posted by Dave in reply to comment from Evan, October 22, 2008 4:27 PM
Ev don't forget that Schill doesn't have an agent so that argument is out the window. He probably just reflected on it and said he shouldn't have said all that.
#7
Posted by Brian, October 22, 2008 4:28 PM
This guy is a windbag, was he with the team when they lost? All he does is shoot off that fat mouth of his looking for attention. He's washed up fuck 'em
#8
Posted by Evan in reply to comment from Dave, October 22, 2008 4:30 PM
Good point, Dave. Forgot about that.
#9
Posted by Justin, October 22, 2008 4:33 PM
Schilling is a windbag, but he just said what everyone is thinking. It's obvious by his play in LA that Manny was not the least bit bothered by his knees, he simply quit on his team and threw a fit so he could be traded and get a new contract. It's sad that one of the greatest hitters of all time had to leave Boston the way he did, but Manny did great things for the club and there are always two sides to every story. Remember how the club traded Arroyo after he gave them a discount. The Red Sox are not without fault either!
#10
Posted by mike, October 22, 2008 4:35 PM
What Curt forgets to mention is that the Sox were willing to put up with Manny for years and they built this monster.
When you sleep with dogs, you might get fleas.
#11
Posted by Sonny in reply to comment from Justin, October 22, 2008 4:44 PM
"It's obvious by his play in LA that Manny was not the least bit bothered by his knees, he simply quit on his team and threw a fit so he could be traded and get a new contract."
Did you watch any of the games in L.A.? Sure, he played every game except the last game of the season, but its not like he was suddenly making gravity defying catches and running up and down left field. He took the easiest routes possible, and didn't show great range. He was playing, but Manny didn't look comfortable in LF. The guy looked his knees were hurting him, the only difference between Boston and L.A. is that he wasn't complaining about his knees.
If Boston wanted a motivated Manny, all they had to do was one thing, tell Manny that the options were dropped and they weren't going to resign him. But they wanted to play both ways, and in the end felt they had to trade him before the clock ran out.
#12
Posted by Ray, October 22, 2008 4:49 PM
What I think everyone is forgetting is that Baseball is a business. I mean, when your boss pisses you off at work, what might you do the next day? Call in sick. Anyways, the Soxs have a history of doing this sort of thing. So when you get two sides of the same coin it be hard to come to an agreement. If anything, Boston came out on the loosing end. You know somewhere down in Florida Manny is happy with the conclusion to Boston's season.
#13
Posted by Erich, October 22, 2008 4:51 PM
What a windbag; and a total coward for removing the remarks. Leave baseball now you pathetic, washed-up douche nozzle.
Oh and Mad Prince, this guy couldn't throw a 95 mph heater if you spotted him the nine.
#14
Posted by JaredK, October 22, 2008 5:02 PM
I like hearing this stuff, loved Manny and appreciate all that was accomplished why he was here. I was fine when they decided they had to trade him but it is nice to get confirmation that he was that much of a prick or that the relationship absolutely could not continue for a few more months. While some people have called Schilling a coward for removing the comments I have not heard many other Sox lambast Manny publicly, so I for one appreciate a little insight into the issue....that label could be better reserved for those who have cake-walked around the issue choosing to praise Bay instead of discussing it..... "25 guys heading in the same direction" is about the most damning comment anyone else was willing to make.
#15
Posted by Tessie's Dad, October 22, 2008 5:02 PM
Why were the remarks removed? Short answer, and just a guess: lawyers.
Schilling's remarks could be perceived as an attempt to lower the value of Ramirez' next contract, and you can bet that Boras would haul Schilling's butt into court in a heartbeat if he thought he could make a nickel off of it.
#16
Posted by The Mad Prince in Pinstripes, October 22, 2008 5:04 PM
Ray,
I think Boston came out on the winning end of that trade. Manny was not going to put up the numbers he put up in LA in Boston because he was unhappy in Boston and not getting what he thinks he deserved. Statistically, well, yes, I guess Boston did, but I think anyone on this site will agree that Jason Bay did a pretty damned good job in LF...he can FIELD AND HIT.
#17
Posted by neoncactus, October 22, 2008 5:25 PM
Schilling just loves to hear himself talk and see his comments posted. Say what you want about Manny, the guy was hitting around .300 with solid power numbers this year. With Ortiz hurting, if Manny had really quit, then his numbers would be more reflective. He certainly earned a lot more of his $20 million this season with them than Schilling earned of his high salary. He's out there to say controversial things to keep his name in the media so GMs won't forget about him.
I'd probably want to believe the Red Sox press machine a little bit more about the whole Manny thing if I hadn't seen the way Manny had such a positive effect on the Dodger clubhouse and if the Red Sox hadn't previously treated Nomar in much the same way as Manny, portraying him as a malcontent and then unceremoniously trading him. Thank you, Tampa Bay, for beating down these arrogant idiots and their prancing closer!
#18
Posted by Bob, October 22, 2008 6:02 PM
Schilling thinks that we should all accept everything he says as gospel and that everything in this world exists to hear his opinion. I've made no bones about my love for Manny, in my eyes when Manny was happy there was nothing quite like watching him play baseball. I do think that Manny had a lot to do with how he left Boston, but it can't be a coincidence that so many players, espeically latin ones (Many, Nomar, Pedro) left Boston on such bad terms, the organization can be extremely demanding and very manipulative and they own the press.
Schilling really needs to shut the fuck up, stop dissing Manny and spreading islamophobia at every opportunity and go back to playing World of Warcraft and eating donuts or whatever he's been doing all season while collecting a paycheck for the Red Sox. At least Manny didn't sign a contract, get suspisciously injured, have his doctor bash the Red Sox medical staff and then half ass his rehab ensuring he had to get surgery. I appreciate what Curt has done for the organization, but I have very little respect for him as a person.
#19
Posted by JaredK, October 22, 2008 6:02 PM
NeonCactus....I'm not sure what you mean by "Redsox press Machine"....they were pretty mum on the whole thing. As much as Schilling and Pappelbon make me cringe when they open their mouths they have been the only sources to give any indication of the level of disfunction and distraction that Manny created. As far as Manny's positive effect on the Dodgers clubhouse...are you naive to think that Manny wouldn't greatly benefit from that perception given his free agency status? The guy is about money, which is fine but his motivation is rather transparent.
#20
Posted by RealRedSoxFan, October 22, 2008 6:41 PM
Why didn't Schilling have the GUTS to say this when Manny was with the team ??...Curt's very brave now that Manny is gone. Perhaps if Schilling had the nerve to say something earlier, maybe the Red Sox players could have confronted Manny...I wonderif Schilling will be as passive-aggressive in his political career.
#21
Posted by Gleebo, October 22, 2008 6:43 PM
How is Schilling gonna blast Manny in the head with a 95mph heater when the guy looks like he wouldn't be able to start at pitcher for a slow pitch softball game. After watching him throw out the first pitch last week he looked to me like a guy who won't pitch another inning of mlb ball.
#22
Posted by M.A.G, October 22, 2008 7:02 PM
I have ten times more respect for Schilling that for Manny. Yeah, maybe you dont like what he says and is too upfront for the tastes of many, but at least he says what it thinks and is not an hypocryte. I can respect that.
I really despise Manny Ramirez, and the way he left. We all know baseball is a business, but even in business you can have some ethics. What he did was not business, was extortion. And I can't have respect for that.
Im gratefull with Schilling, because he always gave to baseball and to the organization his 100 percent and more. I will never gonna forgett what he do in 2004. He put in the line his health and his career for this team.
Manny? Manny just played for his paycheck. He was a talented mercenary, who never gave a rat's ass for anything beyond his pockett.
#23
Posted by M.A.G, October 22, 2008 7:03 PM
I have ten times more respect for Schilling that for Manny. Yeah, maybe you dont like what he says and is too upfront for the tastes of many, but at least he says what it thinks and is not an hypocryte. I can respect that.
I really despise Manny Ramirez, and the way he left. We all know baseball is a business, but even in business you can have some ethics. What he did was not business, was extortion. And I can't have respect for that.
Im gratefull with Schilling, because he always gave to baseball and to the organization his 100 percent and more. I will never gonna forgett what he do in 2004. He put in the line his health and his career for this team.
Manny? Manny just played for his paycheck. He was a talented mercenary, who never gave a rat's ass for anything beyond his pockett.
#26
Posted by Tom A., October 22, 2008 8:15 PM
On another subject...anyone else watching the game tonight?
I'm sort of pleasantly surprised how over the ALCS I am. I definitely wasn't able to watch the World Series after the ALCS in '03. What a difference five years make.
#27
Posted by john, October 22, 2008 8:15 PM
Listen Manny is the best hitter in base ball like him or hate him he will always put up the numbers im a redsox fan and i would of wanted him to stay for the rest of the season.As far a shill gos the guy is a fat ugly big mouth loser that has nothing else to do with himself then talk about people hes worse then a dam women.Trust me manny will sighn a huge contract next year with the i hate to say yanks for 5 years but thats fine i want to see manny play us for once great for baseball but remember MANNY IS THE BEST HITTER IN BASEBALL............................
#28
Posted by Bob, October 22, 2008 8:52 PM
Yeah not hypocritical at all for Schilling to steal the team's money for a year and then call out Manny. Not at all
#29
Posted by SeaBeachFred, October 22, 2008 10:22 PM
I'm up to my sweetbreads with Manny talk. The guy is gone and good riddance. He loafed and quit on his team this year and acted like a spoiled little brat. What I cannot understand is how Theo didn't see this coming earlier in the season before the whole thing got out of hand. The clincher for me was when he refused to get on the bus in Anaheim to go to the airport. I almost wished we could have suspended him for the rest of the season and then see what team would throw all the money at him this off season, and, believe that, there will be a few that will do just that. After he gets that contract he want don't be surprised that he shows his true colors again. The is just a pure out and out asshole
#30
Posted by Joe Loudmouth in reply to comment from SeaBeachFred, October 22, 2008 10:45 PM
Well said Fred. What a jerk.
#31
Posted by DMACH, October 22, 2008 11:27 PM
It's a bad situation for baseball, but it's easy to rip Manny after the fact. Schilling and the rest of the team should've stepped up when the phrase "Manny being Manny" was conceived. It got out of control right under their noses....and now, it's too little too late.
#32
Posted by Evan, October 23, 2008 12:49 AM
Full text:
No one wants to hear less about the ending of the season and the whys than fans that love the Sox. While I am officially no longer a member of this organization I have read and keep reading the “What if” stories as they relate to Manny and the team and the playoffs.
Enough has been said by anyone, and everyone, involved that it makes peoples ears bleed but it still appears a huge important piece to the puzzle is being missed.
First off anyone saying
Jason Bay is a nice player, but he’s not Manny.
is just not a very smart baseball person. Putting up the numbers he did in Pittsburgh has been vastly downplayed in my opinion. Yes his last year was less than stellar but in the Major Leagues that happens. Bottom line is this guy is a 30/100 above average on base guy who plays his ass off in the field and runs the bases hard and right. Is he Manny? Hell no, who is? Who has ever been? But he’s far more than a ‘nice player’. Nice players are guys that play 140 games, hit 275 and drive in some runs, and are good guys. This guy is a very good, very good player. Not only that but he proved the October limelight is not something that will make him wilt. Oh and he had a hell of a nice run the last few months in a market that couldn’t be more opposite than Pittsburgh.
That’s beside the initial point though. People are going to say, and have been saying, what if Manny had stayed? What if Manny had done what he did in LA, in Boston? If TJ Siemers can crawl out of Manny’s butt long enough he’d objectively look at what happened and know he’s at the front of the ‘I’m going to look like an ass at some point’ line and wake up. I’ve made enough horses ass comments to know to at least be aware now, when I am headed down that path….
It was NEVER a question of Manny’s ability, ever. Hell I am not sure anyone had more run ins with him, as a teammate, than I did, but I’ll never say anything other than this guy studied and practiced the art of hitting, and executed, as well as anyone I’ve ever seen.
No, that wasn’t the issue, and no one argues that. What was the issue, and this is my opinion only, became very clear to anyone in or around the team at this point. The issue was not whether he would play ‘hard’ every day. He ALWAYS hit, but the game is so much more than swinging the bat it’s laughable. No, the issue was whether he would actually PLAY. I don’t mean play hard, play tough, play lazy, no, PLAY.
He had in the past taken days off. Hell most guys do. He certainly had his own way of doing it and it was never ever with thought to anyone but himself but for the most part I always took it with the “Manny knows his body better than anyone”. We all knew there were times it was just ‘He didn’t feel like playing today” and by ‘playing’ that meant anything. Pinch hitting, pinch running, anything. His days off for the most part were totally off. That’s not common, not at all. You played that day, or series of days, with a 24 man roster, that was never a thing you doubted or that came unexpected after awhile. As a pitcher that is and always will be a factor in being a leader in the clubhouse. A starting pitcher has very little idea what these guys do to their bodies every day. But what I do know is I played 23 years of professional baseball and have played with guys that ran the spectrum. The guy who said “I’m good” while trying to catch with a broken collarbone, and the guy who literally HAD to feel 100% to take BP. So for a pitcher to question a position player, well in certain contexts that just didn’t happen, but you also knew your teammates and you got to see ‘behind the curtain’ when that ‘hurt’ guy took 5 days off and spent less than 10 minutes in the training room. A direct opposite to the guy who took one day off, made sure the manager knew he could Pinch Hit if needed, and spent the game running back and forth from the bench to the training room getting interval treatment as he could.
No, by saying PLAY I mean exactly that. The issue got to the point where everyone finally took him at his word, there was no choice. A guy refusing to get on a team plane, having to be literally coaxed on, by people with pride and people that love the game, because meeting the obligations of a 20 million dollar contract were not even close to enough to get him going???? If he did not get traded he was going to need “time off” to rest his injured knee, and it got to the point where he made it clear time off could mean the rest of the season. Few guys will admit to it and that’s cool, I get that, but no one, if in the right situation, would ever deny that was anything but true.
So it’s not ‘what could have been’, we knew what was to be, and what was to be was that if he did not get a contract extension he was going to take a seat, and in taking that seat he didn’t give a rats ass what anyone thought, including the 24 guys that wore the same uniform. So the ‘what could have been’ in the post season is not the question. The question is would there have been a post season if he had stayed, and that’s a question, and a gamble, that I think everyone felt they knew the answer too and in the end a gamble no one was willing to take, and rightly so.
People continue to try and assign logic to the thoughts and decisions made when we all knew so many illogical things were said and done that logic was far from a factor in 99% of the things happening at the end. I don’t think Scott Boras told many to ‘tank it’, Manny’s a grown man and any decisions or actions he made are all on him.
It is demeaning and disrespectful to the guys that did respect their teammates, the game and the fans by busting their asses through broken down hips, sore arms, strained abs and whatever, to grind it out for each other and the fans, their love of the game and anything else you can think of, the organization, to hear people question the hows and whys of this whole thing. That was why I said ‘he flipped you all off’ because if you heard ANYTHING he said after he left, he did.
Ya, remember this guy was at the forefront of bringing the first world championship to Boston in 2004 (but please also throw a cheer or three Foulkies way, that guy was the man in October of 04), remember this guy, along with David, made the most fearsome middle of the order of our lifetimes, remember when he was at the plate you better not THINK of not being able to watch what he might do. This guy, when he hit, changed games BEFORE he came to the plate.
But the thing that killed me in the end was this; he never gave a rats ass about any of us that suited up with him, not one iota. He was, and he said repeatedly, about going to the highest bidder and getting as much money as he possibly could, period. If that meant pissing on us in the interim, so be it.
Hey! That’s cool, that’s 100% your prerogative. But please don’t crap all over the guy, or guys that spent years as your ‘teammates’ covering your ass by saying “Aww that’s just Manny being Manny” and the hundreds of thousands of other things we needed to say to stop the stories from being more than they could. Please don’t piss all over the Manager and GM who pretty much swallowed every ounce of pride they possessed because they knew that it was ‘win above all else’ here to the fans and owners. Manny had a cult following because Manny could hit and act goofy, period. Hey that’s cool, that’s what some fans love an that’s fine, but that’s it.
Manny left because Manny wanted to get Manny the largest possible contract Manny could. That happens and that’s fine. But the Sox got a player that’s going to help them get back to October next year out of a situation they could have been left with a player not playing, and a patch work of guys filling in for the rest of the year.
That doesn’t mean, to me anyway, that the question should be “How much farther would we have gotten” but rather “Would we have gotten there?”
Why on earth would ANY situation be as good as it’s ever been? Why would things be so fun and nice and happy and exciting AFTER you lose a first ballot HALL OF FAME PLAYER? Is the rest of the baseball world that much smarter than a guy widely recognized as one of, if not the, best GMs in the game? Is a guy widely recognized as one of the best managers, and on top of that best human beings, in the game that dumb? Couldn’t it be that the opposite is true?
Don’t ask how far they could have gone. Let it be what it is. That team went from 7 runs down and 7 outs to the end of a season that had more turmoil and injuries than the Dallas Cowboys, to tying run on base in the 8th inning of game 7. One game from the World Series.
Is that good enough? Ask the players, they’ll all tell you hell no because it’s now different here. They now, and rightly so, expect to win the World Series every year. Anything short of that is disappointing and you can scream all you want but it’s realistic, and earned. Ya it’s not the Yankees of the late ’90s, but it’s getting there. This group has earned a place of respect in baseball that’s been earned and the onus is on them to maintain that level of expectation through performance, on and off the field. But for me, personally, the far cooler piece is that the composition of players on the team now, and the organization, is now setup to be held to a far higher standard personally and professionally, and with that comes good things. The fans deserve that, the game deserves that.
Joe Maddon benches his star young player twice and his team reaches the World Series. Hell Scioscia has to pretty much kick a star offensive player off his team during the playoffs, it might even have cost them a shot at getting to the World Series in 04. I’m ok with saying it because while you can scream all you want about things I’ve said in the past, I’ve never intentionally disrespected the game, or my teammates, never. I’ve said dumb things and done a few real stupid ones, never was anything said or done with the intent to disrespect either, anyone telling you otherwise is a liar.
I promise Tito, Jim Fregosi, maybe even Bob Brenly and Frank Robinson will tell you I was a pain in the butt at times because I talked too much though the GMs might say it a little more adamantly. But there isn’t a coach or GM I ever played for that will tell you I didn’t bust my ass every day I had the ball in my hand or that I was ever unprepared for the job at hand, or that I ever played the game with anything but respect. I am not a Hall of Famer, I’ve known that since suiting up with one. I played with guys that don’t and will never like me, hell that happens. But I cared about every teammate I ever had and I cared what my teammates thought of me when it was my day, and I cared what the guys in the other dugout thought of me when they had to compete against me. Beyond that what people ‘knew’ of me was/is far less than anyone ever will beyond my friends and family.
The Sox are poised to be a force in baseball for the next decade. The Left Fielder is a perennial All Star, the staff is littered with aces, the bullpen is anchored by a guy that will end the decade as the games most dominant closer, the first and second baseman should finish 1-2 in the MVP race (not sure what order), the team has a HUGE pool of young, homegrown, talent in the majors, and on the way, the manager, though bald with an enormous nose, is as good a manager as anyone in the game and manages people better than anyone I’ve been around, he cares, deeply, about his players and hsi staff and that matters to them all, the coaching staff has 2 future managers at least, one future GM, the fans got their 4th ALCS in 6 years. It’s a new time, a new team and the future is awesome. Remember the 2008 Red Sox as a team that persevered thorugh a lot more than 90% of the teams in the game and battled their asses off to within 2 runs of a World Series while authoring the greatest comeback ever for a team faced with elimination. Remember them for the 3rd baseman that played through what could only be described as a broken hip, an Ace that gutted out a game that will be horribly under appreciated forever, in a must win. Remember 2008 as the year Jon Lester, a cancer survivor, turned into one of the premier pitchers in the game, not the league, the game. Remember them as the team who’s closer extended a record post season scoreless streak even farther, remember them for their 2nd baseman, a five foot nothing guy who can fricking rake (though he knows he can’t hit me) a gold glove first baseman who cemented his place as a premier all around stud (though bald and a mullion). Those are the things to remember this team by, those are the things that matter.
No more ‘what could have beens’, they are good enough now to take responsibility for what is, and what will be, and there isn’t a player on this team that will shun accountability or responsibility for their actions or their teams. That’s a pretty cool thing.
#33
Posted by DUECE in reply to comment from The Mad Prince in Pinstripes, October 23, 2008 11:27 AM
MAD PRINCE: "Schilling can do the same for a half season in 2009 and the opportunity to blast Manny with a 95 mph heater in the side of his head"
dude schil cant even throw 85 mph any more. he is a washed up loud mouth over rated player who got lucky in a few games in the posteason. the yanks, rays, and jays have roughed him up so many times- his post season "magic" is irrelevant. plus if curt ever did face many- he would never have the balls to hit him cuz he knows manny's a ny'er and he would beat the piss out of his old ass. BOSOX FANS: get used to those cerimonial 1st pitches- thats the only time you'll see curt neara mound at fenway again!
#34
Posted by duece in reply to comment from Sonny, October 23, 2008 11:43 AM
sonny- you are blind, man.- DID YOU MISS MANNY BUSTING DOWN THE LINE TO AVOID DP'S IN THE PLAYOFFS????- AFTER TRUDGING DOWN THE LINE IN BOSTON WHILE BEING NO-HIT?!?!?! HIS KNEES WERE DEFINATELY OK TO PLAY ON. HE WAS BEING A DRAMA QUEEN IN BOSTON- AND I 1/2WAY DONT BLAME HIM CUZ... EVERY DECENT PLAYER WHO LEAVES BOSTON LEAVES UPSET W/ THE FRONT OFFICE: MANNY, PEDRO, NOMAR, DAMON, GORDON, BOGGS, MO VAUGHN, TONY CLARK, BABE FRIGGIN RUTH...THE LIST GOES ON- AND TRUST- WHEN BOSTON DONT WANNA RESIGN CURT- HE'LL LEAVE ANGRY, TOO. COINCIDENCE?? I THINK NOT
#35
Posted by Baboo, October 23, 2008 12:47 PM
Me no like the Manny. He is a bad man. Betty, betty bad!!!
#36
Posted by Soup nazi, October 23, 2008 12:51 PM
Agree with Baboo. manny not good.
On other not.
Schilling best Red Sox ever. Not for him. Boston never win big trophy.
With out Curt....no trophy for you!
....get to the back of the line.
#37
Posted by Sonny in reply to comment from duece, October 23, 2008 2:48 PM
So Manny wasn't able to get a hit when a no hitter was being thrown against the Red Sox, that made him into public enemy one? What about the other 8 red sox hitters? Were they also judged for not getting a hit against a guy throwing no hit stuff?
Manny never ran out grounders to first for the first 7 and a half year, and suddenly you're surprised that he didn't do it against a no hitter? How does that make sense!?
#38
Posted by Manny's PS2, October 23, 2008 5:45 PM
Hey there,
Did you see Curt's latest salvo at his other, less "media friendly" blog? Thought you'd want to see it since he linked to your blog.
http://www.dearcurt.com/2008/10/manny.html
#39
Posted by curt, October 23, 2008 5:48 PM
Curt has responded to this, thanks for this great info!!
-C
#40
Posted by bosoxer, October 23, 2008 9:11 PM
Let's see, Manny in Boston-hits .300, in LA-hits .400..... I'm thinking steroids....... considering he's all about the money.
Manny, next year: .280, 28hr, 90rbi. And Jason Bay in 2009: .282, 30hr, 100rbi. We win! Wo0T!
But whatever happens, I'm so F-ing happy that moron manny is outta here! And I pity the team Manny plays for next year. LOL
#41
Posted by crack, October 24, 2008 2:05 PM
It's so rich for Schilling to question Manny. The Schill signs a major contract then immediately is injured. Curt 'The' Schill. Picture of integrity.
#42
Posted by FH, October 25, 2008 11:08 AM
Gotta suck being a sox fan these days, those game 7 loses, ain't that a bitch... Cancer boy just doesn't come through... booHooo
#43
Posted by Evan, October 25, 2008 11:15 AM
Uh... not really, FH... we're doing just fine these days. Grow up.
#44
Posted by gerry, October 25, 2008 3:42 PM
Sorry fm. The Red Sox had one of the greatest runs in their 100+ years, with a bunch of injured, gritty, baseball-loving players coming remarkably close to the WS. They lost to a team of destiny, in much the same way the Sox won in 2004. We are proud of every one of them. Are you proud of your team? Are you proud of yourself for crude rudeness towards a man because he overcame a life-threatening illness? Shame on you. As Evan said, grow up, and get regular checkups.
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