In a stunning twist after people thought a free agent signing of Mark Teixeira by the Boston Red Sox was imminent, John Henry e-mailed the media saying:
We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him. After
hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not
going to be a factor. (Boston Globe)
The rumor is that the Red Sox refused to go past eight years in the bidding which some other teams may have offered and also will not pay him the highest annual salary of any of the bidders.
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8 years, +/- $180M is NOT lowballing. All reports have claimed the Sox had the best offer on the table. To Boras, that is not enough. What an ego. He has “made promises” to Teix to get hiim 10/$200, to Tek (after a .230 and .220 seasons) a Posada type deal, and to Lowe a 5/90 deal. I hope this outrages you.
He is demanding, from his imagined vantage point of power, that teams meet HIS price. He has done this many times. Properly representing players is not limited to squeezing the most money from teams. Boras represents neither the best interests of the players, nor the teams he engages with, nor baseball itself. He represents the best interests of Scott Boras, and as such is a danger to all around him.
The Sox FO flew to Texas to consummate a deal that seemed ready to close. Just for a minute consider that J. Henry and Theo, feeling good enough about the whole thing to fly there, got unpleasant surprises upon their arrival, and were so pissed that they just walked away. “That’s not what we discussed, nor what you represented, nor why we are here. Have a nice life.”
So, we simply have to offer Teixeira whatever he wants? No matter what insane the cost is? If that’s lowballing i love lowballing. This would be the highest contract aside A-Rod’s, so don’t tell me we are lowballing, because we actually are overpaying. He will be the the second highest player in baseball. And is he the second best player in baseball? Not by a mile!
Boras is an specialist in inflating the value of their clients above their real value as players. And that’s why the guy is so despicable.
The problem is, if the Sox had given any indication that they have a backup plan, or a clue, or a desire to spend any money at all, it wouldn’t be a problem.
But they’ve shown time and time again that they’re too cheap to do what it takes to win, under this same disguise.
If we end up signing Dunn or trading for Peavy, I’ll happily eat my words. But just like last year, it looks like Theo and co. were pretending that they were doing their job, and instead had no intention of improving the team. If we end up with nobody this offseason, it will be a very bad sign for the franchise.
again, you establish a market price and work off that. if he has a 10 year contract on the table, then by offering 8 you are lowballing. How is Boras getting his client the absolute best contract not representing his clients best interest? I’d be delighted to hear. It doesn’t outrage me, what outrages me is that people are willing to pay it. If there weren’t owners willing to pay these types of contracts, Boras wouldn’t get them, it’s not extortion, he just plays the game better than everyone else.
Also Tek will not get a Posada type deal, nor do I think Boras expects him to get one, again the market has been established.
Teix may not be the second best player in baseball, but he’s definitely top 5 heading into the next decade, look around and find me another gold-glove first baseman who will post a .900 ops every year for the next 6 years at least, with a clean injury history, who can also switch hit. Give it a shot, he’s got a lot more value than you think once you consider the entire package. He deserves to be among the top 5 highest paid players in the game and he will be.
The discussion about who is or is not a top 5 player in baseball is pretty ridiculous, simply due to the youth question. Teix may not be a top 5 player in baseball, but considering the paucity of quality players reaching FA he’s cream of the crop.
Hanley, Pedroia, Peavy, Santana, Pujols, etc are all signed well before they have a chance to hit free agency. So it comes down to whether it’s trading several prospects, who were signed on multi-million dollar deals from the draft, along with their cost controlled years to get a slightly below-market deal (think the Santana and Cabrera deals).
Instead, you pay a bit more on the cash front, but manage to keep the prospects. It all depends on what is a fit for the team involved: the Yankees needed a solid ace for the next decade, and so CC made sense, while it wouldn’t for the Sox. The Sox, meanwhile, have one power source in the entire minor leagues, and could use a solid bat, so teix made sense.
I’m pretty ok without signing Teix, as long as we make a push for Dunn. Yes, a Dunn/Drew heart of the order would make us suicidal, but it’d also give us two .870-.900 OPS players.
Sean O, I actually agree with you about that. I also think the FO looks to be sleeping right now. We need to upgrade if we want to stay competitive in the AL east, and a good GM should ALWAYS have backup plans. So, even when I’m against the signing of Tex, I’m worried for the inaccion of the team. We have holes in the rotation and in the lineup, and Theo simply is ignoring that fact for a while now. If this team don’t do nothing, we will be in big trouble next year. The team is still good, but the competition in our division will be brutal next year.
Bob, I know Tex has a lot of value, but the question is if he is the best way to spend those dollars. With 200 million, we can buy more than one player, and upgrade more than one position. If the FO really want to improve, with that money we could go after a combination of Shoppach, Sheets, JJ Hardy, and Adam Dunn.
So, even if we disagree about Tex, I think we agree this team needs to invest that money. I don’t want to sit and do nothing for another consecutive year.
And when I said “I agree” I meant I agreed with the #53 post.
Bob, from what everyone is reporting all the original deals are for 7-8 years. So the Sox offering 8 is not low balling. If the Yanks jumped in and offered 10 years at 25 million, would that now be what we should pay Teix? No, it would be outrageously over priced.
I’ve really got to disagree with ya’ll in regards to any inaction on the part of the FO these last two offseasons. Sure it’s fun and prestigious to have everyone talking about a big blockbuster trade like the Schilling deal, but it says a lot about our management that we simply haven’t *needed* to make any big moves. I look at this club and I see a team ready to contend, right now. The Sox don’t need to make drastic free agent signings like the Yankees to fill major holes, outside of catcher. Unlike a lot of people I don’t see a real need to sign another starter; the rotation at this moment is Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, Wakefield, and some combination of Buchholz/Bowden/Masterson. Wakefield has put up league average or better era’s the past eight years now, and only once in the past six did he give us less than 180 innings. At the back of a rotation, that’s pure gold. And we really need to give the kids their starts–if we don’t, we’d never discover the next Lester. Buchholz still has top-of-the-rotation potential: his strikeout totals remained excellent last year, he simply had trouble with command that can likely be fixed. And I’d like to see Bowden and Masterson get their shots as well.
Most teams would kill for a trio of young starting pitchers like we have, and to have them contending for one spot makes sense when you consider the need to limit their workloads, the inevitable missed starts in other spots of the rotation, and the ability to utilize them out of the bullpen. I think Lowe’s a great pitcher, but he would block chances for those guys, and developing your own pitching frees up a lot of money when you do have a hole in the lineup. The only signing that would make sense to me would be Sheets on something like a two-year deal: the Sox wouldn’t need him to contribute 200+ innings, and if he only contributes 100+ innings, they’d likely be of a very high quality while also affording more playing time for the young guys.
I think it’s hard to argue that Boston is a club that plays it on the cheap. They spend a lot of money to make this team and organization strong, but they’re always looking for the most efficient use of their dollars. The past few years that’s meant medical staff, advanced research, and huge bonuses in the draft to sign our guys. What it *hasn’t* meant is free agency. If you need evidence of that look to the Bronx.
Okay I understand the frustration with the FO over the apparent lack of action lately. I completely agree with you. This is a good team but they are a long way from being as good and as well rounded as they could be with a few more moves. Improvement is always a must.
But please don’t say they are “ignoring” problems or just “being lazy”. Do you honestly think they don’t know they need a catcher better than Kevin Cash? Or they don’t know they don’t have a 4th starter? Do you seriously think they have not been thinking about all the different problems and potential fixes? Few GMs have been more active than ours this offseason. Just because we haven’t pulled the trigger doesn’t mean we haven’t been involved in every option. I am just as frustrated as you that we haven’t gotten anything done yet. But to say they are just “being lazy” or they “don’t care” is completely ridiculous. Don’t make senseless accusations in your frustration.
If I had my pick between signing Teixeira or signing someone like Brad Penny and Gregg Zaun and trading for Salty, I’ll happily take the latter.
Most people are losing sight of the fact that the upgrade from Varitek to a catcher that can hit is just as good as the upgrade from Lowell to Tex.
I agree with you that upgrading from Tek to a catcher who can hit at least .250 is probably more important, but what type of action have we seen on that front? I don’t think that they’re willing to give up what it’s going to take to get one. If they bring back Tek without signing Tex I will be even more pissed off.
Well put Evan…a few minor upgrades and our offense will be fine. We should receive a natural increase in production from Lowrie and a catcher like Salty will improve a already good offense. Our bullpen was good down the stretch but was atrocious at times last year,,,it could be ridiculously good next year.
You go into these negotiations with an absolute cap on what a player is worth…you have to do that when talking 8 years when a player is possibly going to tie up 1/6th to an 1/8th of your payroll. In 5 years it is entirely possible with standard regression that Tex will be a .280/25 homerun guy which is nothing special for a first baseman (although his obp will likely remain high). The front office is simply weighing out the last four years of this deal versus the production in the front end. I like the way they have played this…hit your limit and walk away, let him go play for a loser like the Nats if he wants more money.
Agreed. I still don’t think Tex is the right move for this team. A massive contract for a marginal upgrade just because we no longer have a presence like Manny doesn’t seem to be the right piece. And it doesn’t seem to continue down the path Theo has been forging for this team over the last several years. He has been committed to building a foundation on homegrown talent and financially flexibility. And it has worked incredibly well.
Signing Tex seems to go against all of that. That’s why I couldnt believe we were so committed to making this move. Didn’t seem right. But as we got nearer and nearer to the pen hitting the paper I started to realize I needed to get used to the idea of Teix in a Sox uni. For better or worse it seemed inevitable. The Sox FO had laid aside it’s strict negotiating guidelines and decided to use that financial flexibility in one big blow. To gain a new Manny for the next generation.
But once again things changed. Just when it looked like we were gonna start putting out new jerseys Boras decided to push the limits yet again. With his unmatched ego he decided to force us up, confident that the Sox would break and go even higher. But we said no. We said sorry but we still do have limits. And now Boras is left looking to one of the other teams to save him and make the fantastic offer he claims is already out there. Now we just have to see if someone else is gonna make that offer or not. If not we may still get the guy. If someone else does then I am not worried one bit.
Look, I understand the fascination in the guy. He could be a great presence in our lineup. But at the same time I don’t think he should be treated as our best (and certianly not our only) option. He’s not. There are other moves out there that can be made. Other moves that may prove to be the smarter and more efficient improvements. I have prepared myself for what Teixera would be to this team if we do make this big move. But I am also far from panicking if we don’t.
I’m not convinced that this is over either, apparently the Red Sox went in with an offer of 8 years and between 165 and 170 million. He wants either 10 years or 184 million over 8. I agree that 10 years is probably too long, but 8 years for 184 is doable for the Sox.. I don’t know what they were expecting to come out so shocked after their offer was shot down. If I remember right the National’s offer was in the 165-170 million range, you would think that you’d have to go above an initial offer like that to get him.
Relevant to concern that we fill in the holes, Just last week Firebrand was discussing the Bench, with or without Teix. It seemed that Baldelli backed by Hairston, Bailey and VanEvery in AAA would be a brilliant strategy. Lots of HR, good speed, highly versatile IF & OF.
I just read on Rumors that the Reds are looking to sign Hairston and talking to Baldelli. They have the same agent. I thnk the Teix brouhaha has taken Theo’s eyes off the other elements of improving the team. I also read that Greg Zaun is getting ready to sign a deal. Could it be that our infatuation with Teix/Tek/Lowe is going to cost us the best available people to plug our few gaps? Theo, stay away from mesmerizing Boras. Find ways to improve this wonderful team while the talent is still available.
What does Varitek have to do with this? I don’t remember reading anything that says if the Sox sign Teix they are out of the catchers market. Why can’t the Sox trade for Saltalamacchia and sign Teixeira? They seem to be completely independent of each other.
If the Sox succeeded in both those transactions they could be up to 4 or 5 wins better this year. That is pretty substantial. That being said, I wouldn’t count on either of those happening.
Actually, signing Teixeira makes a Salty trade far more likely and palatable. That way, we get a long-term solution at first without surrendering necessary prospects, which can then be flipped to Texas.
You make a good point, Dave.
If Tex does indeed become a Red Sox, I will be a fan and look forward to his amazing production. I just think we are better served by:
– Trading for Salty
– Signing Varitek for 2 years
– Signing Ben Sheets
(The latter two would eat up money that would have gone to Tex.)
Free agent class next year isn’t very hot. Haven’t looked at 2011, but I do remember hearing there will be some nice names.
Sean, would you advocate sending Texas Lars?
Also, yes, the Yankees signed CC and AJ. We can’t possibly keep up with them in the free agency race. It’s not done, their new revenue streams make a 400M payroll doable RIGHT NOW. Next year they’ll get Holliday in pinstripes and probably Carl Crawford too.
We need to ACT, not REact.
I will be delighted to sign Saltalamacchia, or one of the other high level prospects (Montero, Shoppach). If we make just that one move this team will improve significantly. But I’m worried about the fact Theo has not yet pulled the trigger. What is he waiting for? This move is absolutely neccesary, even if it cost us one of our pitching porspects. And if the FO is worried about losing some pitching depth, then there’s just another reason to sign a good starter.
So, maybe I’m being too impatient, but I want a catcher above all else, and if Theo fails to acquire one of this guys, that will be a big mistake IMHO.
Texas would have little interst in Anderson. He’d probably be their 3rd best young first basemen (Smoak and Davis).
I don’t agree with the notion that Sheets and Tek would use up the money. My math has the Sox around $100M right now, assuming that there are no major surprises in arbitration (i.e. Paps or Youks geting over $10M). The Sox, based on their revenue stream, could certainly field a team that costs $150M. So, in theory, the Sox have $50M+ to spend.
Obviously, it would be stupid to spend all of that but hypothetically: Sheets @ $13M per, Tek @ $8M per, and Teix @ $22M per still comes in under $150M.
It’s not being impatient to be frustrated with the way this team is being built. They are a very good team that could be better. A big market club needs to flex its muscle on matters like this. When a big name FA comes up, big market clubs need to act. With players like M-Cab, Longoria, Santana, ect signing long term deals that buy-out free agency, these types of players are going to become more and more rare.
The problem is Theo has made 2 very poor signings, Lugo and Lowell. Those players represent our 3rd and 5th highest paid players and yet they may be completely out of job. It didn’t take a genius to question both moves at the time and now they look even worse. It’s kinda sad that because Theo wasted $36M on an aging third baseman we have to miss out on one of the best 1st baseman in the league for what appears to be his prime seasons but i guess thats the way it has to be.
Evan, the only player I considered totally untouchable for the last 5 seasons was Hanley. We all saw how he turned out.
Lars could turn into Teixeira or Lance Niekro. If we can get a sure-fire fix for another position, do it. If we sign Teix and flip Anderson for Salty (or, I guess, a sure-thing at catcher, whoever that may be), great.
I’ve moved onto Dunn. I definitely want Dunn.
I like Dunn, I think he’s severely underrated, but he’s an absolute butcher in the field and he can’t be DHed because there’s papi. I assume he’d play 1st since neither him nor Bay can handle right in Fenway. Signing Dunn would mean playing 3 terrible defenders on a nightly basis, him, Lowrie, and Bay, that wouldn’t be pretty. Dunn although extremely productive is also extremely frustrating to watch, even for the educated fan who understands his true value and that his type of patience and approach will lead to a lot of strikeouts. Dunn is a good second option, but he has a lot of warts.
?????? Lowrie was well, well above average defensively last season in the MLB. Fielding bible had him at +8, a crazy total considering he only played half the season.
I like Dunn as a power bat and his OBP/OPS, but putting Bay (in Fenway’s LF) with his 3 – 4 annual errors on a par with Dunn’s defense just doesn’t hold water. I realize for some reason you really, really don’t like Bay, but that’s a stretch!
I can’t believe you added Lowrie, a rookie SS with no errors and better range than anyone expected, into this. It has no basis in fact, and detracts from what good points you are making. I will read your reasoning with some interest.
I know you also really, really don’t like Theo & FO either, despite their turning a chronic loser into a chronic winner, or those (like me) who believe we need a 4th Ace and top catcher more than we need Teix or Dunn. But, contrary to your statement, we are neither blind, nor stupid, and wonder if this haven of discussion and opinions and ideas is the right place to be calling out fellow commentors, or tearing down team members, no matter your opinion of them.
. . . or championing the agent who, through manipulations of teams and players, brought us Jason Bay, cost us Manny, and caused the Damon, Daisuke, Teixeira, Tek and other debacles. This man has consistently, with deliberation, hurt the this team.
you’ve got me completely wrong, I actually like all the work that Theo and the FO have done, I enjoyed those Championships a lot. In fact, I’ve defended them more than a few times, even recently saying that it’s ridiculous when people say that money masks Theo’s mistakes. I just think that they’re making a mistake here. I don’t disagree with you that another starter is needed I just disagree on the level of priority. I honestly don’t think you’re stupid or blind, sort of a heat of the moment thing for which I apologize.
As for Bay, I actually loved the trade that brought him here, if you have the archive you can go back and look, I just also love Manny and wish it didn’t end the way it did. I certainly appreciate what he brings to the team. That said, he is not a good defensive player, I think that Dave B had a post about it earlier. Basically, the fact that he’s not that good with the glove gets obscured by the fact that he’s not Manny.
Lowrie, I had no idea that he played that well, +8 is certainly impressive. I’ll admit I was wrong.
Boras, I’m not championing him, I think in the past I’ve said he sucks. But honestly, I don’t think that the man is evil incarnate. Remember when everyone thought Drew Rosenhaus was the anti-christ for all the T.O. stuff and then he saved that little boy. I think Boras is just doing his job and I’m not going to blame him for it. Also, I think he’s actually helping us out with the Tek thing, making it easier to cut the cord.
I apologize for anything that I’ve said that offended you or anyone else personally, I certainly respect you and the fact that this website allows me to comment, even when I’m at my angriest and most irrational.
Hey Evan,
I actually may have made a mistake in reporting that Carl Crawford was going to be a FA in 2010. It turns out that mlbtraderumors may be wrong on their list. All the other sites I’ve checked list a club option for 2010 (of $10M). I’ll have to be more circumspect about mlbtraderumors for a while.
No offense taken, and I hope you are OK with my words, and I must apologize. I had just previously been re-reading Dave B’s column about Jason Bay, had a mental synapse, and with such similar content, confused the two of you, so the reference to Lowrie shocked me into responding. The hopes that Lowrie will be an above average glove and bat at SS are well founded in his progression to Fenway . . . and his success at Fenway despite the fractured wrist.
Re: Boras. My concern is this. He plays the teams, players, media and fans to get what HE wants. I seriously doubt that, until recently, neither Manny, nor Teixeira, nor Tek, nor Lowe, etc. had any idea they were worth so much for so long. IMO, he establishes a joke of a goal in his head and then pulls strings till HE gets it. He burns everyone.
Manny is the best and most recent example (besides Teix). Manny was sputtering towards completion of an 8 year contract with two $10M option years remaining for 2009-10. Very shortly after Manny somehow became a Boras client, he went from irritant to serious problem. Could Manny’s quick exit, which I believe was Boras induced, have cost us the WS? Probably.
The aftermath: Manny goes to the Dodgers and his other unhappy client Teixeira goes to the Angels, both as mere rentals to two of the wealthiest clubs in MLB. Coincidence? No extensions, no nothing. A few months later, he has the Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Yankees, Mets in outrageous bidding wars for these guys . . . and dangling his other clients before our eyes, like our own Red Sox Captain and D.Lowe who clearly stated he wants to return to the Sox.
He is manipulating in such a way that post-season is at stake for several teams. He is hurting teams, players, and fans, and helping no one but himself. I could be wrong, but this is a pattern of behavior which keeps repeating. I agree with many that if MLB had the cojones to do so, it should investigate Boras’ actions for ethical and possibly criminal intent.