Just an update on the Mark Teixeira talks so we can get some fresh news and insight into our great debate on Teixeira that’s been raging for weeks now.
ESPN.com is reporting that Scott Bora$$ told John Henry and Co. that their offer of eight years and ~$160-170 million was short by $25 million. In other words, Boras wants $195 million for eight years which would come out to a $24.5 million annual salary.
We all know what happened: John Henry came out and said it was clear the Red Sox were not going to “be a factor” for Teixeira. Is it a poker game? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It’s clear, though, that the Red Sox are absolutely unwilling to pay Teixeira those kind of dollars. Considering Tex isn’t a player of Albert Pujols’ or A-Rod’s stature, that stance makes more than enough sense.
Loading ...
whatever it is I am done. I love to have him on my team but boras is absolutely ridiculous. I hop the sox take the furcal stand with his clients.
Agreed. There is always a line and the second you start going over it…where/when do you stop? Even at 8 years/170 mil there’s a good chance your gonna hate the last 3-4 years of the contract, even with inflation.
i should preview before i post, but i think you got the point. If the sox are out of he bidding for all future non-sox clients we remove the jerks negotiating ploysa
lesson not learned
And the Yankees have already declared themselves out of the running for Teix, so you know what? If Boras is playing poker here, let him. If Tex ends up in Anaheim or Washington, so much the better for us. If he ends up in Baltimore, he makes life (in an already tough AL East) a little tougher for everyone, but at least in Baltimore he does the same damage to us that he does to our chief rivals, the Yanks and Rays.
This goes back to yesterday’s discussion, which I’m not embroiling myself in, but how can you seriously call the Red Sox cheap here?
First, Tex is a wildly overrated player anyway: even if he weren’t, there should still be limits, but he is, so you definitely have to know and keep your limits. You can’t lose perspective just because the FA market this year doesn’t offer anything better than Mark Teixeira. That’s very short-sighted.
Second, overrated or not, the Sox DID make a bid for the man and offered to pay $20m a year for 8 years, how is that cheap? That’s ridiculously extravagant — not enough for Boras, but still a king’s ransom. We made our offer, it wasn’t enough, so be it. But because the Sox didn’t want to be completely assraped by Scott Boras, now we’re calling them cheap? That just seems to me like an extremely poor choice of words, given the circumstances.
His original demand was 10/200. Now he wants 8/195, and probably with lots of incentives bringing it well over $200M for 8 years. What a jerk. Both of them. I see little difference between the ethics and greed of Boras and the top corporate execs from AIG, etc.
Mike Lowell, I hope you read ALL the posts, most of which were against the trade. Even those for the trade insisted a way be found to keep you in Boston. We wish you good health, a full recovery and a heck of a year.
Sorry man, Lowell just sucks. It’s getting players like him instead of those who can actually contribute that cost us a ring last season.
We need to find a solution that involves another warm-blooded creature than Mike Lowell at the hot corner if we want to compete. Paying $13m a year for, at best, a league average 3B is beyond ridiculous.
Sean O clearly doesn’t get it. I see your point. Nevertheless you don’t get what Mike Lowell really means to that team. His glove, clutch hitting, clubhouse presence… he’s valuable in ways your mind are apparently not understanding. The fact that you just said that the 2007 World Series MVP “sucks” is really beyond ridiculous. Have more respect for the players that play this game for our beloved team.
There’s no reason to shell out 195 million for Teixeira. We’re not the Yankees, and I’ll leave it at that. 160 to play in Boston, he should be so smart as to say “yes I want to play for a contender year in and year out” if he allows Boras to bluff his way out of said contract with the Sox, then he’s not worth having at all. I’d love to weed Boras clients out, but that’s like rooting out oil.
The 2006 World Series MVP sucks, the 2005 WS MVP isn’t that great, the 2003 World Series MVP is a meathead, the 2000 WS mvp is overrated, the ‘98 MVP is just terrible, ‘97 sucked, etc etc. A 4-7 game span doesn’t mean anything.
I don’t care what he “means for the team” or whatever explanation is given to try to give guys like Lowell value. If we’re wasting $13m a year, we should get someone who’s at least a .290/.390/.500 hitter. Lowell is a .270/.340/.460 guy. And it’s extremely clear that he’s not going to get healthier and better in the field as he ages.
“If we’re wasting $13m a year, we should get someone who’s at least a .290/.390/.500 hitter.”
What rulebook is that in? Seriously, Sean? The guy you just outlined has an .890 OPS — not that far removed from Mark Teixeira and his career .919 OPS. So Teixeira is worth $24m per in your book — as you blasted Henry & Co. for not footing that price tag, I assume you think Tex to be worth that much — but a guy with an .890 OPS is worth only $13m per? Helluva difference, those 30 points of OPS make, yes?
I agree with Sean in this sense – the Sox should never have inked an aging 3rd baseman who’d just come off of a career year to a 3 year deal. That was not one of Theo’s finer moments. Sentimental and politically astute (most of Sox Nation was in love with Lowell), but it just was not a good baseball move.
I think the Sox bid was more than reasonable. If they went as high as 8/180 or 184 as some have suggested they were willing to go to, I’d say that they were being extravagant. With the amount of money the Sox have, I think it’s hard to put things in perspective, but there has to be a limit. I do think the team is better off with Tex, but like everyone else here, I’ve grown tired of Boras and his tactics. Screw’em I say.
So who should Theo have signed last year, Pedro Feliz?
pre all-star #s for lowell, before the hip troubles, were very solid:
.297 .360 .507 .867
and if you weren’t bitching about is his defense in 07, then you can’t bitch about it last year, b/c fielding% and range factor both IMPROVED.
so actually, sean o, he DID get better in the field as he aged… ;)
Lot of the same old same old arguments from the same old posters. Bash Boras. Bash Teixeira. Bash Theo. Bash John Henry. Bash Papi. Bash Lowell, Lugo, Drew, Varitek. BASH! BASH! BASH!
Nothing in any comment said the Sox were outbid.
Nothing in any comment said the Sox were eliminated.
No credible reports have shown a longer or better offer exists.
The Sox are calling a bluff. Plain and simple.
Personally I like this move. Boras has always jacked up the price of his clients by using mystery teams and rumored $$ amounts. The Sox usually stay silent as a church mouse on all aspects of contract negotiations. Until yesterday nobody had an estimate on what the Sox offered in terms of yrs or $$. Now everyone does. If they do have the best offer on the table how do the other teams now feel? Encouraged? I say the Sox just pulled Boras’ pants down.
I also don’t understand why some people think the Sox aren’t working on other areas while this is going on. The vast number of available catchers through free agency or trade requires some serious work to find the best option. Trading for a good young catcher will REQUIRE long involved negotiations because players will have to be moved. You won’t see the Sox suddenly get shut out of the young catching market because all the best young catchers suddenly get traded in deals that nobody had heard anything about. The Sox surely laid groundwork at the winter meetings and have kept in touch with other teams regarding players that interest them.
The Sox will get a new catcher this off-season. Maybe a new one and Varitek. This is really all the Sox NEED to do. Signing Teixeira and/or a 4th or 5th starter are both debatable issues that have cabin-fever regurgitation running rampant.
Keeping Lowell as a 12.5 million dollar backup infeilder is absolutely s t u p i d. He has played 1 position his ENTIRE career. He won’t DH much with Papi here. He’s not going to want to sit in ANYBODY’S dugout.
Mike if you read these posts (yah right), I hope you get traded to a team that will play you everyday at 3B like you deserve.
Actually, Sean O has been bitching about Lowell all along, if he’s one thing it’s consistent
Look at Lowell’s numbers in literally every season except for 2007, his contract year: he falls apart in the 2nd half.
1st half (career):
.284 .349 .501 .850
2nd half:
.273 .337 .425 .761
A few things about the 13m vs. 21-22m valuation. One, age and injury history does get factored in, so signing someone in his mid 30s to a $40m deal is daft. Teix is also just entering his prime, while Lowell is far past what little prime he had. Second, I guess I should slightly rephrase my line. I don’t think .390/.480 is too much to ask for $13-14m a year, while .340/.460 is not getting it done.
In short: the $10m pays for at least a .06-.08 increase in OPS on a base level, covering prime years that could easily see multiple .400/.600 seasons, gold glove defense, and a switch hitter.
You overpay for quality, not for mediocrity. Lowell is a below-average hitter for his position.
by that logic, youkilis also ‘falls apart in the 2nd half’, except in 08.
we get it, you don’t like lowell. so who would you have preferred the sox signed to play 3b last year?
Nobody! I wanted Lowrie. Well, actually I wanted Miguel Cabrera, but we didn’t even look into it. I knew Teix was going to be available this offseason since Atlanta was too cheap, so I figured I’d take a potential slight decline on offense for a single season not to get caught into a stupid 3 year contract.
I’ve been saying all along that Youk falls apart in the second half, so until he can do it in consecutive years, it is best to plan for a second half letdown. It doesn’t mean that he will or that I want him to crap out after the ASB, but it would be daft to expect or plan for a .312 .390 .569 line from youk this season. Instead, we need to make sure we have enough fire power to cover any eventual decline.
Atlanta wasn’t too cheap they just don’t have the money. They have the 3rd largest fanbase in baseball, but all the fans are too spread out to come to turner field and buy tickets. And while people who live in the immediate area do love the Braves, they don’t buy tickets because the city is so sprawled out and there are too many other distractions.
The following is from a Boston Herald article:
According to one source, Boras was “pretty upset” that Sox principal owner John Henry went public with his characterization of the negotiations. Henry, president/CEO Larry Lucchino and general manager Theo Epstein met with Teixeira and Boras on Thursday at Teixeira’s Dallas-area residence. It was Henry’s first meeting with Teixeira, who met with Epstein before the winter meetings.
The meeting reportedly went well. Even though it is below what Teixeira wants, the offer the Red Sox presented is the largest in franchise history. The magnitude of the deal, along with Boras’ penchant for keeping competing offers as vague and mysterious as possible, helped create the current logjam between the Red Sox and Teixeira
Buster Olney had a good article on financial constraints teams are facing in the current and percieved future economic climate.
Boras is losing leverage daily for all of his clients. Manny’s market is shrinking hourly with the Angels out and there being not a snowball’s chance in Hell that Boston is in the mix. Add to that his dismissive attitude toward LA’s original offer. Varitek is in the same boat and Boston just called his bluff on Tex. I’ll bet Boras isn’t happy. Welcome to the real world Scot!
Tex is NOT just entering his prime. He’s not 26 or 27. He’s 29.
And where in his numbers (except for half-season spurts, which we can discount, for the same reason that you discount them in Mike Lowell’s or Kevin Youkilis’ case) do you see any evidence that Teixeira is a .400/.600 player? He did it in the second half of the season in ‘07 with the Braves, and the second half the season again in ‘08 with the Angels, but clearly (according to your logic) that means he’s a slow starter and can’t produce on that 1.000 OPS level for an entire season.
Where did I say it was necessary? I’m saying there is the potential for a 1 OPS, because he has put those numbers up for halves at a time. It isn’t necessary to make the deal a success, it would just certainly be nice.
As Sean O. mentioned, Miggy was available, but the Sox sat on their hands and let him pass to the Tigers.
Bottom line. Since 2003, Lowell is a 110 OPS+ hitter, Youk is a 122 (since 2006 when he really broke in full-time) and Tex a 134. At the start of next season, Lowell will be 36, Youk 30 and Tex 29. You tell me which pair of players you want playing 1st and 3rd . . .
You’re generous, Sean. For myself, I say that if we’re gonna pay anybody more than 20 freaking million dollars a year for 8 years to hit and catch a baseball, it would be nice to know that we’re getting a 1.000 OPS player. But we’re not, and what do I know?
Sean O is a closet yankee fan. everything he says about ditching players to make room for big free agent signings, absolutely wreaks yankee. we don’t NEED teixeira, bottom line. we didn’t need miguel fatso cabrera either. we got within 2 runs, with a line-up bit by the injury bug, of getting to a second straight world series. if teams could win a world series in the offseason, it would have been a Tigers v Mets world series. in reality sean, i want nothing to do with your yankee vision of what Theo should be doing.